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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9375302" data-attributes="member: 6877472">The way I handle skill checks, is I assume a metaphorical &quot;average PC&quot; who has proficiency and 16 ability.&nbsp; They should be able to hit a DC 15 half the time, or all the time if it's something that they can endlessly retry without any real pressure.Then I apply the old &quot;DM's secret rule&quot;.&nbsp; If I think it's a bit tougher or easier, I go with DC 13 or 17.&nbsp; I don't usually worry about checks below 10 because in my mind, those should be trivial to most adventurers.&nbsp; Sure, you're going to get that guy with a dump stat and no proficiency with a -1 check in theory, but oh no, now they only succeed 45% of the time.&nbsp; Eh.Knowing that anyone can roll a 20, anything I think a person can reasonably do with sufficient motivation or adrenaline, I set there. I know people can fall from a mile up and not die (it's happened!), so if someone gets chucked off a mile high cliff on some outer plane, I'd probably set the DC there.&nbsp; Maybe 22 if they can fall on sharp rocks or something.&nbsp; 25, to me, is right about where I'd put &quot;one in a million shots&quot;, like taking on the Death Star.&nbsp; After all the Bismarck was damn near impossible to take out, yet, despite all it's armor, a lucky torpedo crit jammed her rudders and from there the engagement's CR was inverted, the same way your big boss fight goes belly up when the BBEG fails a save against the Monk's Stunning Fist.Sure, at the higher end of play, it's not unreasonable for someone to have a +11, just opening up the possibility of DC 30 (unless they're a Rogue), but I don't plan on ever setting a DC that high.&nbsp; Maybe a 27.&nbsp; Because 30 is the kind of feat that happens once, ever.&nbsp; The fact that you can conspire to make it possible to hit that routinely I consider a bug, not a feature.If I want something to be impossible, I say it's impossible and don't even entertain a roll.&nbsp; If I want the players to have a chance at success, I don't gate rolls behind bleeding edge optimization.Anyways, to answer the question of what a DC 20 check looks like?&nbsp; Something that people could deem impossible, but really isn't- sufficient optimization can allow even normal Tier 1 humans to accomplish.&nbsp; Like how people felt the four-minute mile was impossible until 1954- and now is the benchmark for middle distance runners.A 25?&nbsp; Probably US Airways Flight 1549.&nbsp; Something you can look at and say &quot;oh yeah, he rolled a 20&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9375302, member: 6877472"] The way I handle skill checks, is I assume a metaphorical "average PC" who has proficiency and 16 ability. They should be able to hit a DC 15 half the time, or all the time if it's something that they can endlessly retry without any real pressure. Then I apply the old "DM's secret rule". If I think it's a bit tougher or easier, I go with DC 13 or 17. I don't usually worry about checks below 10 because in my mind, those should be trivial to most adventurers. Sure, you're going to get that guy with a dump stat and no proficiency with a -1 check in theory, but oh no, now they only succeed 45% of the time. Eh. Knowing that anyone can roll a 20, anything I think a person can reasonably do with sufficient motivation or adrenaline, I set there. I know people can fall from a mile up and not die (it's happened!), so if someone gets chucked off a mile high cliff on some outer plane, I'd probably set the DC there. Maybe 22 if they can fall on sharp rocks or something. 25, to me, is right about where I'd put "one in a million shots", like taking on the Death Star. After all the Bismarck was damn near impossible to take out, yet, despite all it's armor, a lucky torpedo crit jammed her rudders and from there the engagement's CR was inverted, the same way your big boss fight goes belly up when the BBEG fails a save against the Monk's Stunning Fist. Sure, at the higher end of play, it's not unreasonable for someone to have a +11, just opening up the possibility of DC 30 (unless they're a Rogue), but I don't plan on ever setting a DC that high. Maybe a 27. Because 30 is the kind of feat that happens once, ever. The fact that you can conspire to make it possible to hit that routinely I consider a bug, not a feature. If I want something to be impossible, I say it's impossible and don't even entertain a roll. If I want the players to have a chance at success, I don't gate rolls behind bleeding edge optimization. Anyways, to answer the question of what a DC 20 check looks like? Something that people could deem impossible, but really isn't- sufficient optimization can allow even normal Tier 1 humans to accomplish. Like how people felt the four-minute mile was impossible until 1954- and now is the benchmark for middle distance runners. A 25? Probably US Airways Flight 1549. Something you can look at and say "oh yeah, he rolled a 20". [/QUOTE]

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