D&D 5E Create a DC 20 Skill check

[Minigiant]

Recent discussion got me thinking.

There's no real list of DC 20 skill checks for 5e because 5e wanted us to have a personal feel for the type of game and adjudicate skill checks to match.

But as a community, what do us ENWorlders, especially us DMs, think a DC 20 check for a given skill could do.

A DC 20 check is something a commoner has a 5% chance of doing but a novice adventurer with a lot of talent and some proficiency in the skill could do 25% of the time.

For example, would a DC 20 Strength Athletics check would let you double your jump distance?
A peasant would have a 5% chance of adding that extra 10 feet in a lucky jump.
But a new barbarian could add 16 feet to their jump 1/4 of the time. It could happen but its not reliable.
Or do you think it should be triple jump distance?

Create a DC 20 skill check for any skill and let's talk.

 

[Quickleaf]

Instead of double jump distance, I'd cap it at +50% for DC 20. And degree of failure would carry a consequence.

I had a longer reply, but to be brief: DC 20 jump shouldn't add more than 5 feet (or 50%) to a typical PC's running long jump distance. Because 10 Strength covers 10 feet, +5 makes that 15 feet, which is basically getting half of 7th level Champion's Remarkable Athlete feature. There's a reason those jump features/spells are in the game and when we say "yes" without considering them, we end up cheapening the experience for folks choosing those features/spells.

Anyhow, jumping is a mess in 5e.

Here's an easier example: Survival check to track one person across normal earth 24 hours after they were lurking near the city's river ford and it's foggy out. DC 20.

 

[Reynard]

The first thing that comes to mind to me for a DC 20 check is a character trying to convince a guard to abandon their post. It is probably a Charisma check, but I would be open to other arguments,but the real thing here is a character convincing a (probably young) guard that the situation is under control and everything would be yotally ok if they left, even for a few minutes.

It is a fun check to adjudicate as well as having a bunch of potential outcomes built into.the skill challenge and anniversary clients.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Becoming a Chik-Fil-A franchise???

 

[Minigiant]

Instead of double jump distance, I'd cap it at +50% for DC 20. And degree of failure would carry a consequence.

I had a longer reply, but to be brief: DC 20 jump shouldn't add more than 5 feet (or 50%) to a typical PC's running long jump distance. Because 10 Strength covers 10 feet, +5 makes that 15 feet, which is basically getting half of 7th level Champion's Remarkable Athlete feature. There's a reason those jump features/spells are in the game and when we say "yes" without considering them, we end up cheapening the experience for folks choosing those features/spells.

Anyhow, jumping is a mess in 5e.

Here's an easier example: Survival check to track one person across normal earth 24 hours after they were lurking near the city's river ford and it's foggy out. DC 20.

So

DC 20 Strength {Athletics} check to add 10 feet to a jump.
DC 20 Wisdom (Survival) check to track one person a day later under poor visibility.

 

[Charlaquin]

In my philosophy (and before this thread blows up into a hundred-page argument, I’m not saying it’s the only valid philosophy), a DC is not a static feature of the world, waiting for a skill check to be made against it; it’s an element of the action resolution process, and therefore can’t be appropriately set without the context of an action being taken by a PC. A cliff face isn’t inherently a DC 20 to climb, the PC’s attempt to climb it might have a DC 20, assuming that what they’re doing to attempt to climb it would be hard - for example, trying to free climb it. The details of the cliff are of course a factor in setting that DC as well. It might only be medium (DC 15) to free climb if it has a lot of cracks and crevices that could serve as hand and footholds, or it might be nearly impossible (DC 25) if it’s smooth and featureless. However, the same smooth cliff face might only be hard (DC 20) to aid climb using hammer and pitons to create features to grip.

 

[Quickleaf]

Here's another one for the cliff divers: DC 20 Acrobatics to deliberately dive 85-feet into water without injury.

My formula for diving into water in a jump farther than 10 feet: DC 5 + 1 per five feet falling beyond 10 feet

For reference: In 2015 Swiss diver Laso Schaller set a world record men's cliff jump at 193 feet. This would be a DC 41 check according to my guidelines. Another way to interpret my guidelines is "How much is the fall damage mitigated by?" For example, if Laso Schaller rolled 20 on his Acrobatics, he'd deduct 85 feet from the fall height of 193 feet, to get 108 feet, and take 10d6 damage (well, I also house rule falling into water is d4's, but there ya go)

 

[ezo]

In my philosophy (and before this thread blows up into a hundred-page argument, I’m not saying it’s the only valid philosophy), a DC is not a static feature of the world, waiting for a skill check to be made against it; it’s an element of the action resolution process, and therefore can’t be appropriately set without the context of an action being taken by a PC.

Not seeking a debate or argument (your philosophy is valid, of course!) but I view it from the other side...

A cliff face isn’t inherently a DC20 to climb, the PC’s attempt to climb it might have a DC20, assuming that what they’re doing to attempt to climb it would be hard - for example, trying to free climb it. The details of the cliff are of course a factor in setting that DC as well.

It might only be medium (DC 15) to free climb if it has a lot of cracks and crevices that could serve as hand and footholds,

or it might be nearly impossible (DC 25) if it’s smooth and featureless.

These are, in reality, 3 different cliff faces, and the DC is inherently set by the surface.

1. Smooth rock, virtually featureless: DC 25
2. Rough rock, some crevises: DC 20
3. Very rough rock, several crakcs and handholds: DC 15

The type of surface defines the DC.

Conditions and PC actions can create disadvantage or advantage. For example, if the surface is wet/slippery (recent rain), the check has disadvantage; if the PC has a hammer, pitons, and rope, the PC gains advantage.

But what the PC does never alters the DC. The PC can gain advantage, or (if you are also a bit old-school) perhaps gain a flat bonus due to their action... If you go with the latter option, I understand why your view is valid since effectively the PC gaining a flat bonus is mathematically the same as the PC action adjusting the DC (two sides, same coin).

However, the same smooth cliff face might only be hard (DC 20) to aid climb using hammer and pitons to create features to grip.

For me, the DC would not change, but the check would gain advantage.

To be clear, the reason why I don't adjust the DC itself is because the DC must remain the same for each creature attempting the check. It is set by the world.

 

[Charlaquin]

Not seeking a debate or argument (your philosophy is valid, of course!) but I view it from the other side...


These are, in reality, 3 different cliff faces, and the DC is inherently set by the surface.

1. Smooth rock, virtually featureless: DC 25
2. Rough rock, some crevises: DC 20
3. Very rough rock, several crakcs and handholds: DC 15

The type of surface defines the DC.

Conditions and PC actions can create disadvantage or advantage. For example, if the surface is wet/slippery (recent rain), the check has disadvantage; if the PC has a hammer, pitons, and rope, the PC gains advantage.

But what the PC does never alters the DC. The PC can gain advantage, or (if you are also a bit old-school) perhaps gain a flat bonus due to their action... If you go with the latter option, I understand why your view is valid since effectively the PC gaining a flat bonus is mathematically the same as the PC action adjusting the DC (two sides, same coin).


For me, the DC would not change, but the check would gain advantage.

To be clear, the reason why I don't adjust the DC itself is because the DC must remain the same for each creature attempting the check. It is set by the world.

Yeah, for sure also a valid way to look at it, and in practice the results of either approach are probably almost indistinguishable from the players’ perspective. For me, the DC would remain the same for each creature attempting the task, provided they’re attempting the same task. But, trying to free climb a cliff is a fundamentally different task than trying to aid climb the same cliff.

The same result could be achieved by your preferred method of having the cliff itself set the base DC, and having different conditions, tools, etc. modify the roll. But for me, it’s much easier to consider the goal and approach the player describes holistically, and set one DC in that moment, rather than try to memorize or keep a list of a bunch of stock DCs as well as examples of things that might modify the check.

 

[ezo]

Not to derail the thread too much more, but I'll quickly add since most DCs are set in increments of 5 giving the descriptive terms, I like adding a little randomness to DCs, such as climbing a cliff might be a DC of 14+1d6, giving you a 15-20 range. So, perhaps the section the PC choose might be a bit easier (DC 15 with a 1 on the d6) or harder (DC 20 with a 6 on the d6).