Creating a logic puzzel

[Evilhalfling]

I am trying to build one of those logic puzzels with that has a list of clues each one about a person and connecting variables
i.e. jenny, bill, john, ralph came to dinner, they brought a pot noodle, wine, bread, and beer, the person who arrived first broght the wine, but jenny was always late etc......
I remember reading instructions on how to create these but not where I read them.
I have the table of people and variables if anyone wants to take a crack at it,
otherwise just advice on how to set it up would be good...

They are all agents of a secretive organization with the top 3 roles being important, by the time they reach this puzzel they may have already killed the ratman.

Name, location, time activated, Class, Role

Gnilrats, Pastin (city), Phase 2, Bard, Highly public false identity
Taiw, Pitnue (city), Phase 3, Sorcerer, Low profile false identity
Maffe, lower caves (lair), phase 4, fighter, sulking resentfully
Ratman(and crew), upper chamber (lair), phase 1, scout, guarding (lair)
Labuj(and crew), records room(lair), phase 4, wizard, waiting deployment

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Here is a webpage with some advice:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4484/lpconst.htm

Maybe I'll take a crack at it as well if I end up with some time to kill.

 

[PurplePCEater]

OK, I think this works...

If you'd like to have a go with this, I think it works out. I haven't used the phases part of the table, if only because there were two phase 4s, but you don't actually need to know that information in order to determine who is where, doing what, and what class they are.

Here goes (with explanation of what each clue gives you in turn):

1. The bard is outside the lair.

(the bard is in one of the cities of Pitnue or Pastin)

2. Maffe sulks a lot, but not in the upper chamber.

(Maffe is sulking; Maffe is not in the upper chamber)

3. Labuj is a spellcaster.

(Labut is not a fighter or scout)

4. Gnilrats is well known in public.

(Gnilrats has a high public profile)

5. The guard is in the lair, and is not a spellcaster.

(the guarding character is not in either city; implies that the bard is not the guard - clue 1; implies that the guard is a fighter or scout and therefore Labuj is not the guard)

6. The sorcerer is in Pitnue.

(sorcerer is in Pitnue; implies bard is in Pastin - clue 1)

7. Those with false identities are found in the city.

(the characters with a high or low public profile can be found in either Pitnue or Pastin; implies Gnilrats is a bard or sorcerer and that Maffe is neither bard nor sorcerer, and therfore Gnilrats is in Pastin or Pitnue)

8. Taiw is in Pitnue.

(Taiw is in Pitnue; implies that Taiw is the sorcerer - clue 6, and that Gnilrats must therefore be the bard with a high profile, meaning that Taiw has a low profile - clue 7; also implies that Ratman is guarding and that Labuj is a wizard and is waiting to be deployed)

9. The character waiting to be deployed is in the records room.

(results of clue 8 imply that Labuj is in the records room)

10. Ratman is a scout.

(Ratman is a scout, leaving Maffe to be the fighter. Since Maffe is not in the upper chamber, that is where Ratman must be. Everything is now cross-referenced and worked out.)

There are, of course, other ways to do this, but this happens to be the one particular combination that I came up with.

Hope this helps.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I looked at Purple's version, I thought there are some holes, and I realized that one thing these types of puzzles need is a setup which we don't have. What do the players who have to solve the puzzle know? Do they have the complete list of locations, names, jobs and classes and only need to connect them together? If they do, then I think Purple's plan works. If they have any holes in this info, it does not quite work. For instance, they know Labuj is a spellcaster. They know they the Bard is in Pastin, and the Sorcerer is in Pitnue, and they can piece together the names of the Bard and the Sorcerer, but they can only know that Labuj is a Wizard if they know the network consists of a Wizard, a Bard and Sorcerer.

And the time activated does throw an additional wrench into things since there are 2 activted in phase 4. Does the time activated really matter? What is the setup?

 

[Evilhalfling]

Hmm I can move maffe to phase 5 since he is not actually active.
phase 5 has yet to take place.
the set up is that know that this members of this organization can use disguise self at will and they have actually met all the agents, under different names, some they were suspcious of, others they missed completely. The phase activated matters some, because they actually met the agents in order.
they have no clear information going in. The important things to learn from the puzzle are that - there is a possible turncoat (effam), there are 2 sorcerers in pitnue that they know, one has steped in as regent, the other is his (low profile) apprentice. Knowing which one is an agent is big. They suspected the bard as an agent, but lost track of her location.

In order to make purples solution viable, It looks like I need to provide the following:
There are 5 agents, one in pitnue, one in pastin and include job descriptions instead of actual classes i.e. Information, Book magic, Blood magic, Scouting and Fighting. I also need to say that one of the city agents has a high profile the other a low. (this would replace # 7)
Any other holes obvious?

The caves are seperate from the lair, I don't think they will hit the caves first,
but they have two trackers. So if they know he is nearby they would go looking. (or if they question people, which is less likely.)
I suppose they don't have to solve the problem to get useful info from it, but
solving most of the details would get them useful info.

 

[Felikeries]

horrorous actions by one of the NPC's under question can begin a series
of modifier rolls by the players in which the DM can determine wether
str,con,dex,wiz etc has an extra to aply,this will lead to a a continuem
of a path that finds the NPC iether involved in actions that reveal
what is to be of the party's understanding of the scenario or a situation that
allows players to fight and question of win(iether option may be prevluded as the better for info buy the DM)

interacting with these questionables should include the following
~if alignment adjusted,the player(or party) may touch off towards answers that won't be met,thus more battles or scenarios untill they reach a cunclusion
~a new NPC will interfere,adding a lie (rolled mosdifietr) truth,that effects a timming that is essential to the party's actions
~detaining one,while the others interpret this will lead to confrontation or
an admittance that effects any of the theretofore factors
~patience will lead to the lead 'overlorde' sending a battle party
~an allegiance with a 'saint' or 'divinity' will send a clue that may be overlooked
~no place that is determined to be part of a group 'discovery' action will
be easy to enter iether by magical doors or traps,thus making a forboding and
series of extra's needed by the party in order to find a clue
~a merit of a players 'words' durring an interogation may entirely bely
wether the group can,find:battle:answer for: render: a number of reference
extra's needed to make a decision about loyalties or actions the questionee's
might have a place with,thus with no good answers a - to all modifiers in the next series,or good interaction an extra that allows easy trap etc. disarm,or a meeting with the leader of the NPC's

Now obviously with some care the players may make a conclusion that is right if it's too easy for the initial campaign,any place needed to be found after this may have 1 of 4 or so options that will take place that makes for
a more difficult battle scenario according to the party's traites,items,or spells

 

[Evilhalfling]

horrorous actions by one of the NPC's under question can begin a series
of modifier rolls by the players in which the DM can determine wether
str,con,dex,wiz etc has an extra to aply,

*Blink* * blink*
what?