Creating a new weapon

[Kavok]

One of my players wants a "Fuma Shuriken":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuuma_shuriken
http://muse.19inch.net/~dave/ras/shapes/Naruto-Shuriken.png

I said okay:
Damage: 1d8
Range Increment: 10ft
Damage Type: Slashing (Or bludg?)
Critical: 20/x2
Exotic Weapon

He wants:
Damage: 1d6
Range Increment: 20ft
Damage Type: Slashing
Critical: 19-20/x2
Exotic Weapon

Our arguments:
Range Increment: I say that this weapon is exotic, unwieldy, and heavy. It would be pretty difficult to throw - so 10ft.
Critical: My argument against 19-20 is that it would be extremely difficult to hit a critical body part -on purpose- with this weapon.

So I leave it up to enworld - you decide.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

It looks ok. to me. A tad stronger, considering the trident. Your version is pretty much that. the trident is weak considering the dagger

His version balances well compared to the dagger, if you make it a martial one handed weapon.

*edit*

I think only the stats should take part in such a debate. How it looks is of no consequence. its fluff. He shouldn't be penalized for the fluff. If he is penalized for the fluff, it should get a counter benefit.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

on another note, breaking my own rules, its a weapon meant to be thrown and not really meant to be used in melee. Thats just my take. I think his version works better.

this is probably what he had in mind. A clip from the game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdiIlpT_4II

 

[Arkhandus]

Your version is basically a Javelin that takes a feat to use, has less range, does slashing instead of piercing, and does one degree better damage. Not exactly a good deal for an Exotic weapon.

The player's version is basically a Javelin that takes a feat to use, has slightly less range, does slashing instead of piercing, and has a slightly better threat range. His version is slightly better and more in line for what an Exotic throwing weapon should do.


Also: Ease of use has nothing to do with a weapon's critical threat range. Design of the weapon, and how it is used to strike, determines that. The shapes of rapiers, scimitars, and falchions lends them their wide threat range. An unwieldy weapon may incur an attack penalty or have poor range, sure, but it's not likely to have much impact on the weapon's threat range.

Quick edit: The shape of the fouma shuriken's blades is more like a scimitar's than an axe's, therefore its striking points hit the target more like a sword than a broad-bladed axe or a wide hammer. Thus it should have a decent threat range at least, because when it does hit, there's a good possibility of a blade digging in rather than just slashing and rebounding.

I'd be tempted to make the weapon Piercing damage, really. Or Piercing and Slashing together.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

the two weapons listed are definitively not exotic, unless they are monk weapons and can be used to flurry with.

 

[frankthedm]

I think only the stats should take part in such a debate. How it looks is of no consequence. its fluff. He shouldn't be penalized for the fluff. If he is penalized for the fluff, it should get a counter benefit.

Weight and mass are not fluff when it comes to a weapon.

Essentially the weapon is a giant shuriken. Those are already exotic x2 crit and 10' range. Those are a lot uf die upgrades to get to 1d8. 1d2 then 1d3 then 1d4 then 1d6 then 1d8.

What i might suggest though for the giant shuriken
[IMaGel]http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6475/shurikenpu6.gif[/IMaGel]
Light Exotic Weapon {wieldable in melee without penalty]
Damage: 1d6
Weight 3 lb.
Range Increment: 20ft
Damage Type: Piercing & Slashing
Critical: 20/x2

One handed Exotic Weapon {wieldable in melee without penalty]
Damage: 1d8
Weight 6 lb.
Range Increment: 20ft
Damage Type: Piercing & Slashing
Critical: 20/x2

No ranged weapons in the core other than the dagger and crossbow has the reliable accuracy of a 19-20 crit. Most are only x2, a few can land a lucky hit with a x3 crit.

 

[Kavok]

Weight and mass are not fluff when it comes to a weapon.

Essentially the weapon is a giant shuriken. Those are already exotic x2 crit and 10' range. Those are a lot uf die upgrades to get to 1d8. 1d2 then 1d3 then 1d4 then 1d6 then 1d8.

What i might suggest though for the giant shuriken
[IMaGel]http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6475/shurikenpu6.gif[/IMaGel]
Light Exotic Weapon {wieldable in melee without penalty]
Damage: 1d6
Weight 3 lb.
Range Increment: 20ft
Damage Type: Piercing & Slashing
Critical: 20/x2

One handed Exotic Weapon {wieldable in melee without penalty]
Damage: 1d8
Weight 6 lb.
Range Increment: 20ft
Damage Type: Piercing & Slashing
Critical: 20/x2

No ranged weapons in the core other than the dagger and crossbow has the reliable accuracy of a 19-20 crit. Most are only x2, a few can land a lucky hit with a x3 crit.

This is the reason my version has the stats that it does. I was using pre-existing weapons to design it. The closet thrown weapon is the shuriken, which is already exotic and pretty weak. The vast majority of thrown weapons are 20/x2.

 

[Korak]

The reason the shuriken is so weak is that it is a monk weapon (eligible for flurry), can be enchanted as ammunition, and can be drawn as a free action. It this new weapon can be drawn and enchanted in a similar fashion, it should be more like your version. If it can't be drawn as a free action, enchanted as ammunition, or isn't a monk weapon, it should be more like his version.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Weight and mass are not fluff when it comes to a weapon.

your right, its quantified into weight, but does not directly effect the other stats, but their is a correlation with bigger weapons do more damage, and weigh more. I don't see how what you mean...

Essentially the weapon is a giant shuriken. Those are already exotic x2 cit and 10' range. Those are a lot uf die upgrades to get to 1d8. 1d2 then 1d3 then 1d4 then 1d6 then 1d8.

as said, the shuriken is not the best example as its a monk weapon, gives a free use of a feat (quick draw) and other goodies. Its also only a exotic weapon so the monk can use it. As a stand alone exotic weapon, it would be stronger.

No ranged weapons in the core other than the dagger and crossbow has the reliable accuracy of a 19-20 crit. Most are only x2, a few can land a lucky hit with a x3 crit.

frank, are you saying that a die upgrade and an extra 10 feet of range for added to a dagger changed into a martial weapon, and made one handed instead of light is too strong? If it were exotic i think it would be stronger. say d10. keep in mind a dagger is light simple weapon.


over all though i like the idea of it being martial and used for melee and exotic to be thrown, but whats the incentive when you cant take a feat to throw anything? I say give it a 19-20 or x3

*edit* i see its alittle better then i thought, but still the use of throw anything is a better deal.

 

[Mistwell]

The reason the shuriken is so weak is that it is a monk weapon (eligible for flurry), can be enchanted as ammunition, and can be drawn as a free action. It this new weapon can be drawn and enchanted in a similar fashion, it should be more like your version. If it can't be drawn as a free action, enchanted as ammunition, or isn't a monk weapon, it should be more like his version.

I agree. Korak's questions are the right ones to ask.