Pathfinder 2E Creating interesting solo monster encounters

Nilbog

Snotling Herder
Hi

So coming from a 5e background I found that challenging players with a solo or boss encounter usually went well with the inclusion of legendary and/or lair actions, however with this being missing in PF2 I'm finding making the encounters fun, and the right difficulty level quite challenging. I've generally been throwing monsers around Level + 2 or 3 at the group but I find it very dangerous for the group as the bigger numbers means the monsters are critting easier and the group struggles to hit them.
I've toyed with terrain effects but I find they become too circumstantial, and while they add to the encounter I don't always find it works.

For an encounter I'm planning I've done the following, similar to the lines of lair actions. I've taken the Amalgam from Fall of Plaguestone (I won't post the stats here in case it breaks a copyright) and given it a breath attack.
However as this encounter is taking place in a wizards lab where magic is running amok, I've made the amalgam powered by four vats of elemental energy (Fire, Acid, cold and electricity) I've not decided upon the stats for the vats yet, but below is how I plan to implement them:

Lair Actions:
Alchemical Vats:
four vats float around the room, each one represents one of the following energy types: Acid, Fire, Cold and Electricity.
These are tied to the Amalgam, and animate it.
Destroying one gives a permanent weakness(5) to that damage type and damages the creature by 10 hp.
Once per round, they empower the Amalgam, granting it 1HP/vat remaining.
For one of its actions the amalgam can use the energy recharge its breath weapon and gain resistance(5) to that energy type (This ability does not function on the round it’s destroyed, if it’s destroyed before its go, otherwise it doesn’t function on the following round)

What do you guys think? also any other ideas for making solo bosses more interesting
 

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CapnZapp

Legend
Personally I'm not yet at the stage where I'm ready for houserules. Plenty rules as is :)

As for level+3 monsters, I feel your (players') pain. Already L+2 is borderline.

For the time being I would settle for throwing in several really low-level adds (not more than L-2). Even if they're one-shotted each time they divert one strong attack away from the BBEG they serve a purpose.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I would look at monsters like the Otughy, Hydra, and Marilith for inspiration. These monsters were designed to be used as solo monsters. They can be also be used at level, but their mechanics were designed specifically to make for compelling boss fights.
 



doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Haven’t played PF2 yet, but lookingn at it, it seems like Lair Actions should port over pretty much directly.

One thing I do in 5e is I use the Lair Action and Legendary Action mechanics to model a boss giving commands to their subordinates. So, a merc cpt waylaying the PCs on the road has Legendary Actions he can use to position his allies, get one to heal another (or him), have them go into or change formation (and formations have buffs and debuffs), or make a group attack that functions like the boss making an AoE Attack.
 

dave2008

Legend
I would look at monsters like the Otughy, Hydra, and Marilith for inspiration. These monsters were designed to be used as solo monsters. They can be also be used at level, but their mechanics were designed specifically to make for compelling boss fights.
Are they designed to be solo monsters or are they designed to be multi-limb monsters? I ask because why those three? Hydra I get, but the Otughy and Marilith are hardly traditionally BBEG / Boss monsters. Why not dragons or pit fiends or dragons or balors or, seriously, dragons?

EDIT. I just checked out the Otughy and I am wandering what in the design makes it seem like a boss monster to you?
 
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dave2008

Legend
Hi

So coming from a 5e background I found that challenging players with a solo or boss encounter usually went well with the inclusion of legendary and/or lair actions, however with this being missing in PF2 I'm finding making the encounters fun, and the right difficulty level quite challenging. I've generally been throwing monsers around Level + 2 or 3 at the group but I find it very dangerous for the group as the bigger numbers means the monsters are critting easier and the group struggles to hit them.
I've toyed with terrain effects but I find they become too circumstantial, and while they add to the encounter I don't always find it works.

For an encounter I'm planning I've done the following, similar to the lines of lair actions. I've taken the Amalgam from Fall of Plaguestone (I won't post the stats here in case it breaks a copyright) and given it a breath attack.
However as this encounter is taking place in a wizards lab where magic is running amok, I've made the amalgam powered by four vats of elemental energy (Fire, Acid, cold and electricity) I've not decided upon the stats for the vats yet, but below is how I plan to implement them:

Lair Actions:
Alchemical Vats:
four vats float around the room, each one represents one of the following energy types: Acid, Fire, Cold and Electricity.
These are tied to the Amalgam, and animate it.
Destroying one gives a permanent weakness(5) to that damage type and damages the creature by 10 hp.
Once per round, they empower the Amalgam, granting it 1HP/vat remaining.
For one of its actions the amalgam can use the energy recharge its breath weapon and gain resistance(5) to that energy type (This ability does not function on the round it’s destroyed, if it’s destroyed before its go, otherwise it doesn’t function on the following round)

What do you guys think? also any other ideas for making solo bosses more interesting
I'm not familiar enough with PF2e yet, but couldn't you give them reactions that are similar to legendary actions. Some monsters already have reactions in PF2e so just give them the Reactive trait from 5e (see the Marilith) or the Multiple Opportunities Trait from PF2e (see the Hydra) or the Attacks of Opportunity trait (see PF2e Marilith) and give them however many reactions you need and then set the conditions for those reactions.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
"Why not give them legendary actions or lair actions?"

Maybe because PF2 is different game from 5E, and by adding houserules we admit that Paizo's rules can't handle Solo monsters. In other words, if we can create interesting solo monster encounters using RAW, that would likely be a more satisfying discussion. :)
 

dave2008

Legend
"Why not give them legendary actions or lair actions?"

Maybe because PF2 is different game from 5E, and by adding houserules we admit that Paizo's rules can't handle Solo monsters. In other words, if we can create interesting solo monster encounters using RAW, that would likely be a more satisfying discussion. :)
Well, we don't have monster design guidelines yet, so what is RAW in this case. Are just saying using the bestiary monsters without modification?

If that is the case, then yes I don't think PF2e does solos very well
 

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