Creating Mundane Items

[malcolm_n]

What do you think?

It doesn't look as though they're made with a skill now.
A ritual anybody can do maybe?
Or just fluff (I can make axes because my dad made axes)?
Could I be of the minority who still wants to craft items for a purpose, even if it's just when I'm not killing kobolds?

 

[Crashy75]

Well, it'll probably be fluff or a ritual type thing for 'masterwork' (assuming there are masterwork items anymore).

EDIT: THere was a very creative thread about this somewhere.

 

[Revinor]

A ritual anybody can do maybe?

Why everything which is not covered in the rules is called 'ritual'? If it turns out that "Horse Riding" is not in the game as a skill, somebody will create a "Mount Horse" ritual for warriors, "Dismount Horse" ritual, "Lance Attack" ritual, etc...

I think that mundane items will be created with hands and tools. Not with rituals and dice rolls. Just let the people who know how to do it, do it. Leave it to role playing layer of the game. If somebody wants to use his time making horseshoes instead of gaining levels/researching new spells, more power to him.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Why everything which is not covered in the rules is called 'ritual'?

First off, it's not "not covered in the rules." Rituals are a rule-system. In this context, "Ritual" just means a rule-system for describing inputs (gold, time, materials, etc.) and outputs (a spell effect, masterwork item, temporary bonus to a _____ check, etc.). Speculation has been that even if the PHB does not explicitly provide for it, this rule-system could be quite flexible. There could be different kinds of rituals for each power source (martial, divine, arcane, primal, shadow, etc.) and "mundane" rituals too, such as crafting a run-of-the-mill longsword.

What do you think?

For mundane items, you could handle it with either fluff or an explicit "vocation" type thing. Like: "Each player picks a vocation at 1st level. This is what you were before you went adventuring." I'm not a fan of that though, since not choosing weaponsmith, armorsmith or bowyer seems like an obvious self-gimp. There should only be meaningful choices in character generation.

I'd prefer that most PCs can perform basic maintenance and repairs on their equipment, but that they need to seek out a real craftsman if they need anything more complicated than that. Fighters don't know how to forge an ax any more than a wizard knows how to turn a cow and a pile of firewood into a spellbook. I think this would encourage more creative character backgrounds and story-building too, by saying "Don't worry about effectiveness, just write whatever you think works best for this character's narrative."

It's also a bit of a statement to the effect of "Even if you were a weaponsmith's apprentice, you clearly didn't stick with it and finish your apprenticeship - otherwise, when would you have found the time to learn how to fight/cast spells so well?" No one can be good at everything.

 

[Revinor]

First off, it's not "not covered in the rules." Rituals are a rule-system. In this context, "Ritual" just means a rule-system for describing inputs (gold, time, materials, etc.) and outputs (a spell effect, masterwork item, temporary bonus to a _____ check, etc.). Speculation has been that even if the PHB does not explicitly provide for it, this rule-system could be quite flexible. There could be different kinds of rituals for each power source (martial, divine, arcane, primal, shadow, etc.) and "mundane" rituals too, such as crafting a run-of-the-mill longsword.

Ehhh... Then don't call them rituals. So far, we have seen that clerics and wizards have ability "Can use rituals". Same as calling rogue exploits 'spells' is not right, I don't think that calling creating a horseshoe a ritual is correct. Even martial ritual.

I could possibly see martial rituals being done by monk-like classes for some chi/whatever effects, but let's not mix things like 'Change The Diaper" into rituals. Even if it has an inputs (crying baby, clean diaper) and outputs (happy baby, used diaper).

 

[MaelStorm]

Ehhh... Then don't call them rituals. So far, we have seen that clerics and wizards have ability "Can use rituals". Same as calling rogue exploits 'spells' is not right, I don't think that calling creating a horseshoe a ritual is correct. Even martial ritual.

I could possibly see martial rituals being done by monk-like classes for some chi/whatever effects, but let's not mix things like 'Change The Diaper" into rituals. Even if it has an inputs (crying baby, clean diaper) and outputs (happy baby, used diaper).

True.

 

[MaelStorm]

Non-combat skills are becoming to be a real headache for me too. Now that skills are merged down, these skills doesn't fit anymore, i.e. a Craft skill would be too general for a skill.

 

[Dragonblade]

I don't think mundane item creation even needs skills, or rituals. It seems to me to be purely a RP thing. If a player wants to learn how to forge weapons, I just say he apprentices himself to a blacksmith for a certain amount of time. After that he can just forge weapons as long as he spends time and materials as appropriate. I never saw the need to have a skill do that.

In this respect, I appreciate that 4e is getting away from the 3e "rules for everything" mentality.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

What do you think?

It doesn't look as though they're made with a skill now.
A ritual anybody can do maybe?
Or just fluff (I can make axes because my dad made axes)?
Could I be of the minority who still wants to craft items for a purpose, even if it's just when I'm not killing kobolds?

I hope it is dealt with as fluff that provides no direct benefit.

Sure, you can make axes because your dad made axes, but that does not mean you get your starting character's axe for half-price or free. You cannot spend time between adventures making axes and selling them for enough money to buy that armor you really wanted, but couldn't afford.

You can use that fluff to "talk shop" and develop a bond with the smith in the town you travelled to, or offer to assist him for a few days so they can better arm the town milita. Any benefit from that is then determined by the DM rather than a rulebook.

I've seen too many players in the past use the Craft: [something useful for adventuring] as a way to gain extra small benefits for their PC. I've seen other players ridiculed for choosing less useful Craft skills because they wanted a different background. That bugs me even more because these players get penalized for being willing to have the background they want, rather than one that is more optimized for adventuring.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Ehhh... Then don't call them rituals.

But that's the term WotC is using to describe Arcane and Divine "rituals", so if we call them anything else we then have two words for the same thing. That's not good either.

If we're going to use one word (a "Good Idea"), I'd rather than Mundane "Rituals" then Divine "Trained Procedures", or some other more universally applicable term. YMMV, of course.