Creative ways to place traps in dungeon?

[RUMBLETiGER]

Design very high ceilings. Traps drop down. It's too dark to see up very well.

Add Kobolds. While they're searching for Traps, Kobolds fling poop, then attack.

 

[jonesy]

A trap protected by another (but non-lethal) trap. Disabling the first trap activates the second. And the rogue gets a pie in his face. Or slimed. Or showered with previous victims of the trap (in which case it was non-lethal because it was full, it is now again active).

A trap protecting a set of stone doors. To unlock the doors one has to intentionally set off the trap. Disabling the trap keeps the doors unlocked. The trap hits the front of the doors with long spears. To open it safely you need to stand by the side and set if off with something long.

A trap which can't be disabled, because it is so old it has broken down. You can find it, but you can't do anything to it. You just have to trust that it won't do anything to you either. Make a whole corridor full of these, and the rogue will go crazy.

A trap at the end of a wooden bridge. Disabling the trap also severs the ropes holding thee bridge together. Anyone on the bridge falls a couple of dungeon levels down into a dungeon section filled with murky cold water. Climbing back up from this part is made hard by the slimy walls.

A mechanical device at the end of a corridor facing a deep drop into nothing. It looks like a trap, but it's actually the mechanism which disables the illusion of a drop. The corridor is perfectly safe.

 

[anest1s]

Searching for traps often involves more than just eyeballing the area. It involves probing and poking, checking to see of that stone rocks when stepped upon, or if that lock has an odd resistance when you try to move it.

In short, you need to search with your hands as well as your eyes, or else you just aren't doing a thorough job. You aren't really taking 20.

I disagree. "You generally must be within 10 feet of the object or surface to be searched." This implies that no poking is needed.

Remember that with searching you're looking at a 5x5 area within 10 feet of you. So the evil GM thing to do is ask "Where are you searching?" Traps on the ceiling are just as viable as the floor and wall. So while your rogue is poking the floor with his pole or using a shuffleboard kit to check for pits, he won't get a chance to notice the spikes slamming down from above.

Second, just because the trigger is in one place doesn't the trap is there. One of my favorite things is a pressure plate that activates the trap farther down the hall.

Third, traps can have mechanical trigger that can be activated by monsters. So if a monster lures the PCs down the hall, his buddies can throw a switch causing The Horrible Hall of Rotating Knives to activate.

Fourth, just because you find the trap doesn't mean you can deactivate it. And if you fail by 5 or more bad things happen. For my games that usually means you activate the trap and it goes off in your face.

Finally, magical sensors and automatic reset. Having the trap go off when an arcane eye or some other sensor detects people entering the room/hall/whatever may be cruel or unfair but it adds some extra tension and excitement if your rogue is now frantically trying to disable the trap before it goes off again!

Its very easy to make traps too good to be disabled/detected- the easiest way is to put a very high DC. The problem is that you will just make the players take 20 on the ceiling too and/or make them feel that the DM is against them, not the world.

 

[Dandu]

There are no traps in the dungeon; the dungeon itself is the trap.

Gotta think outside the box, man. Be a leaf on the wind.

 

[trancejeremy]

It's funny that this has come up a lot (whether Take 20 applies or searching for traps or not), but there isn't an official ruling from WOTC or Paizo. Shrug. I think it violates the spirit of the rules, if not letter, personally.

Have them get constantly attacked by wandering monsters. Heck, they should be, anyway. The time element is another thing that gets discarded, but should be a factor in exploring dungeons.

2 minutes to move 5 feet means they will take 30 minutes to move 75 feet. Usually you roll for wandering monsters every 30 minutes (sometimes less, depending on the rules, 20 also is often used)

Of course, in the old days, wandering monsters didn't have treasure, and you didn't get much xp from combat, so it was a big down side to fight wandering ones.

Also insist on keeping track of food & water. (I'd do that anyway).

The other thing to do, and something the first DM I played under did, was have competing adventuring parties. Have them reach rooms that the PCs missed, leaving behind the corpses of monsters and a few coins of treasure.

With all that said though, I think the overuse of traps in dungeons should be avoided. For something like the Tomb of Horrors, sure. For most things, use logic - like a bandit cave might have 2-3 near the entrance to give the bandits warning, or an evil wizard might have a pit in his tower to dispose of clumsy and annoying apprentices...save traps for treasure chests and the like most of the time.

 

[Grogg of the North]

Its very easy to make traps too good to be disabled/detected- the easiest way is to put a very high DC. The problem is that you will just make the players take 20 on the ceiling too and/or make them feel that the DM is against them, not the world.

I'm not advocating that it should be done all the time. I apologize if that is how I came off. But every now and then it's fun to throw the rogue a curve ball.

 

[Li Shenron]

The problem that I'm having is that my players are constantly taking 20 with every step they take in dungeons.

This really gives me a headache:
If the party rogue has a sufficient search-modifier, the trap will be found with 100% certainty.
If the party rogue doesn't have a sufficient search-modifier, the trap will not be found and I gave them no chance at all. This will create bad blood for sure.

So what I'm looking for is a way (or two) to place traps in a dungeon in a way that they are immune to constant "take 20" and require a little bit more thinking/effort from the players part.

First, stop using useless traps. A trap that springs, does XdY damage, and that's it, is useless. All it does is cause the party to consume a cure wounds spell or potion. No traps in random locations that have no distinguishing features, such as a random tile or pillar.

Second, just to break your players' habits, introduce a trap that can (and will) be found but cannot be disabled with a simple die roll, and does not just deal a bunch of damage (so no getting away with your barbarian walking into it and soak the damage), so that in order to proceed they have to play smart. Self-resetting traps help avoiding the barbarian trick.

Examples:
(a) a trap that deals too much damage if walked into, but the effects of which can be limited by taking certain precautions [such as a trap made of gears which can be partially rigged to slow it down if you jam it with a stick or a rock]
(b) a trap that can be bypassed but this requires a series of skill checks [such as a pit trap that you can walk around if you balance on a ledge, improvise a bridge across or even climb on the ceiling]
(c) a trap that can be disabled, but only if you get to a location which is past the trap itself [so the Rogue has to find first a way like in case (b)]

NOTE that these, as-is, require smart play but still don't necessarily take advantage of the Rogue's skill ranks in Search and Disable Device: everybody may effectively find a solution for the trap if they play other characters. In case (c) only the Rogue still needs to do the job, but with other skills so this can lead the Rogue to wonder if the investment in Search/DD ranks was worth, so see next points...

Third, play with traps design and locations descriptions so that in order to reach the required DC to find/disable the trap a circumstance bonus must be gained, and this can be achieved by e.g. asking the DM the right questions to get hints on how the trap seems to work -> +X circumstance on disable device, or asking details on specific parts of the room where the trap is -> +Y circumstance on search, or trying to disable the device using a specific tool (as in previous example). The difference here is that you're trying to turn smart play into a mechanical bonus that only the Rogue can use. Still, everybody is technically able to provide the Rogue this bonus.

Fourth, consider a house rule where additional Disable Device rolls (no Take 20) grant hints, that the Rogue can then think about to improve his chances for smart play and get the circumstance bonuses as before, this way really making the investment in skill ranks valuable again.

Fifth, remember that traps work best when they ARE sprung after all. Try however to make a trap cause havoc (rather than damage), especially in the middle of an encounter: e.g. a trap that triggers just when the monsters arrive (and maybe is accidentally triggered by them after you succeeded at carefully not triggering it!), a trap that splits the party during such fight, a trap that causes hazards to appear during the fight, such as: holes in the ground, falling massive rocks, something that knocks creatures prone or slows them down, something that moves creatures against their will (flow of water, uneven ground, sliding stairs, pushing blocks, tilting tiles...), release dangerous substances (lava, acid...)

Sixth, if you use really challenging traps with a chance that they won't be beaten or withstood, use them to block optional areas and benefits such a treasure room or a shortcut, but not an area necessary for completing the adventure!

 

[Empirate]

I use traps very, very sparingly. Only one in three dungeons even has traps in my games, although sometimes everyday law-abiding citizens install traps on their cashboxes to deter burglars. When traps are there, I try and make them into a game-changer: if found, the dungeon suddenly becomes quite a bit easier; if not found, much of the dungeon's challenge revolves around the trap's effects.

For example, a hallway rigged with poison arrow firing crossbows might have the arrows come from holes in the walls - so the walls are actually just blinds, with small crawlspaces behind. These crawlspaces, once found, can be used to navigate the entire dungeon, and maybe even circumvent difficult monster encounters. However, if the trap is not found, the poison arrows hit automatically with high-DC Str poison. That will make climbing a certain wall later on very difficult, carrying heavy loot is hard as well, and fighting... well, you know.

Or in the case of a simple alarm, a) every guardpost is manned by skeleton crews (as in, minimal manpower, not undead), most of the guards are sleeping, the PCs easily get surprise rounds in every fight etc.; or b) the whole guard force is ready and in battle dress, waiting with locked and loaded crossbows behind fortifications.

Or the trap splits the party, teleporting half of them to the other side of the dungeon. If found, it can possibly be rigged to teleport the whole party near the treasure vault.

Or the trap constantly summons in new monsters, and once activated, cannot be turned off by any means. The monsters are summoned at random to every part of the dungeon, so the party better be quick about their business, before all the corridors are crammed with summoned beasties.


This makes traps meaningful, and possibly fun to play around with. It also rewards creative players. However, don't do this all the time. It severely impacts the whole dungeoncrawl. As said above, I only use traps in about every third dungeon.

 

[Greenfield]

I'll argue that searching requires more than the eyes. Search your desk for some paperclips. Do you have to move anything to find them?

Yes, searching an area requires that you be within 10 feet of it. Searching for a trap, however, is more like searching a desk drawer than looking for lost keys.

Additionally, even if you can search for traps with a camera, there is a penalty for failure: You think it's clear and you walk in, setting it off. (Yeah, I know really REALLY arguable.)

In any case, the DM has the option to rule that searching for traps is a hands-on thing, and not subject to the "Take 20" rule.

That alone ends the problem the OP complained about.

 

[Endur]

1) As a general rule, one trap maximum for a single game session (assuming a game session is 3-5 hours).
2) Exceptions to that rule for game sessions that are supposed to put the Rogue(s) in a spotlight.
3) Think about who the target is for the trap. Is this a mousetrap to catch pests? Is this a trap for thieves with sticky fingers? Is this a trap to catch guards who are sneaking off the base? Is this a trap for a known group of adventurers? Different traps have different purposes.
4) Up above someone made a comment about making sure that traps don't prevent monsters from visiting the john. Traps should not infringe the monster (or dungeon inhabitant) economy in any way. So no traps on the front door, unless everyone uses the side door and nobody ever comes through the front door. Even then, some bonehead will forget and try and come through the front door.