Creature DR -- Su or Ex?

[Shin Okada]

Well, I can't find any clear rule clarification for it. But If I were a DM, I say,

DR X/Bludgeoning, X/Slashing, X/Piercing and combination of those ones are (Su), as they are based on the creature's physical structure (no meat to slash, etc.).
DR X/Adamantine is (Ex), as it is simply mean that the creature is hard.
DR X/Silver and X/Cold Iron are (Su), as it is based on magical/mythical nature of the creature.
DR X/Alignment are (Su)
DR X/Magic is (Su)

If some creature has, say, DR 5/Slashing and Good, I say that creature now has DR 5/Slashing in an anti magic field.

This is my 2 yen.

 

[FireLance]

I think it was clarified in a recent Dragon issue that materials DR (cold iron, silver, adamantine) and damage type DR (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing) are Ex, while magic (magic, epic) and alignment DR (chaotic, evil, good, lawful) are Su.

If a creature has DR of two components (e.g. silver and good), the Su portion goes away in an anti-magic field. So, outside of an anti-magic field, you would need a Holy and silver weapon to get through its DR. Inside an anti-magic field, any silver weapon would get through its DR.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Pax]

Someone having "DR 5/silver" and "DR 5/good" actually works as if he had "DR 5/silver and good", because you have to get through both DRs to negate his DR. Having "DR 5/silver or good" is worse than that. If you break it up like that it's not parallel any more.

I only break the DR up like that when determining "(Su) or (Ex)?" - in other words, an "or" tends to be treated piece by piece, rather than as a whole, only when determining the answer to that question.

"DR 5/silver or good" can be penetrated in an Antimagic field (or out of it), with any silver weapon. "DR 5/silver and good" cannot, because you a player character isn't going to have a good-aligned silver weapon in that field.

 

[Shin Okada]

I think it was clarified in a recent Dragon issue that materials DR (cold iron, silver, adamantine) and damage type DR (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing) are Ex, while magic (magic, epic) and alignment DR (chaotic, evil, good, lawful) are Su.

If a creature has DR of two components (e.g. silver and good), the Su portion goes away in an anti-magic field. So, outside of an anti-magic field, you would need a Holy and silver weapon to get through its DR. Inside an anti-magic field, any silver weapon would get through its DR.

Sounds good to me.

So DR X/Silver and DR X/Cold Iron are not magical? It sounds very strange to me. What kind of non-magical physics can make something particularly vulnerable to such specific relatively soft metals?

 

[mmu1]

So DR X/Silver and DR X/Cold Iron are not magical? It sounds very strange to me. What kind of non-magical physics can make something particularly vulnerable to such specific relatively soft metals?

The same ones that allow a Vampire or a Demon to exist in an antimagic field even though their physiologies are impossible given real-world physics.

Or those that allow creatures like Half-Celestials and Half-Demons to fly without magic, even though their body weight, wingspan and musculature make it physically impossible, and allow creatures like dragons and monstrous vermin to get around without having their skeletons collapse under their own weight.

 

[The Souljourner]

Well, in many movies, the silver damage reduction is shown as very fast regeneration and an allergy to silver that prevents said regeneration. That's all very Extraordinary.

-The Souljourner

 

[Aluvial]

The same ones that allow a Vampire or a Demon to exist in an antimagic field even though their physiologies are impossible given real-world physics.

Or those that allow creatures like Half-Celestials and Half-Demons to fly without magic, even though their body weight, wingspan and musculature make it physically impossible, and allow creatures like dragons and monstrous vermin to get around without having their skeletons collapse under their own weight.

My example revolves around a devil with DR 15 / Good. I think that the spell Align Weapon (2nd level Cleric) is just too easy to come by to let the devil's DR be Su.

This said however, the concensus seems to be against me.

Does someone know of the issue of Dragon where this was mentioned; I've written Skip Williams to see if I can't get an answer...

Aluvial

 

[FireLance]

My example revolves around a devil with DR 15 / Good. I think that the spell Align Weapon (2nd level Cleric) is just too easy to come by to let the devil's DR be Su.

This said however, the concensus seems to be against me.

Does someone know of the issue of Dragon where this was mentioned; I've written Skip Williams to see if I can't get an answer...

Aluvial

Just checked this morning - it was Dragon 319 (the Athas issue). And if you think that 2nd-level spell to overcome Su DR is too easy to come by, consider that a 1st-level spell (Magic Weapon, Magic Fang) lets you get through magic DR, which is also Su.

So DR X/Silver and DR X/Cold Iron are not magical? It sounds very strange to me. What kind of non-magical physics can make something particularly vulnerable to such specific relatively soft metals?

I think it was game design rather than physics. If you can get through the DR without the use of magic, e.g. using a certain weapon type made of a certain material, the DR is Ex. If you need magic (a magical or aligned weapon), then the DR is Su.

 

[The Souljourner]

My example revolves around a devil with DR 15 / Good. I think that the spell Align Weapon (2nd level Cleric) is just too easy to come by to let the devil's DR be Su.

I don't quite understand that logic. An otherwise completely useless 2nd level spell that you have to memorize specifically is too easy to come by? And how does that make it so the devil's damage reduction should be ex? So they can cheese out antimagic aura? You realize that if you make it Ex, if the devil has antimagic aura, it's impossible to get by the damage reduction at all, unless you're a [Good] outsider (whose weapons always count as [Good]). So PCs are essentially screwed.

I think it makes perfect game and realistic sense as it is.

-The Souljourner