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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tlantl" data-source="post: 5864863" data-attributes="member: 55225">But not necessary. And I'm not talking about challenge ratings. Challenge ratings are useless as soon as the monster affects one class differently than the rest like undead or elementals. challenge ratings are useless as soon as you try to change even the smallest detail of a creature in 3e. 3e is the only version of the game I played where using the described method of determining monster difficulty wound up causing a TPK. I guess some people forget that there was  a game called AD&D that people played from 1978 or so until 1999 or there about. Hit dice and monster level were the thing then and it worked pretty well. It works in 3e too by the way. But since there are no hit dice or monster level in 4e it can't work so the developers had to do something. Right? (monster level associated with it's hit dice which determines hit points, not the level used to approximate the appropriate challenge for a party of players)</blockquote>