Crime & Punishment?

[CaptainCalico]

Right we have all latched on to the Personality Feats. I gave everyone a PF in addition to the feats they would regularly get, just because I think it is a great way to encourage and reward roleplaying. The Schemer is already scheming (to the consternation of the person who chose Loyal Member), the person who chose Fortune's Fool is (unkowingly at this point) going to be key to one plot thread, and I forsee ....interesting interplay between the Warrior and the Pacifist, especially since the Pacifist is the more seasoned tactician.

From a DM's point of view it gave me some very concrete points to hang previously nebulous ideas on in terms of defining parts of the gameworld. Once the campaign gets up to speed I will let you know how things progress (and if I actually get the chance to use the complex debate rules )

Again, thanks everyone at Penumbra for putting out great books like this - and tell John I'm begging for the university book too!!

 

[JoeGKushner]

A University book eh?

Might be something to tie into the old Unhallowed Halls.

The type of education might provide a good reason why despite there being no reason why wizards are no more difficult to qualify for than fighters that there aren't as many wizards as fighters.

Something about religious scholars as well. Perhaps rivalries in their teaching methods?

and of course the fun one can have on campus with the various ancient books. Whole expeditions could be made by students seeking their mentors approval as they hunt down lost and forgotten items.

 

[MaxKaladin]

Commerce and Caravans, huh? Sounds cool. Looks like it will almost certainly address one of the three most common economic questions to come up in my campaign. They are:

1. "Well, we're going to the other side of the empire anyway, let's see if we can't find a profitable cargo to take with us."
2. "Hey, I've got a bunch of money and I want to buy some property that will generate money for me. What will it cost? "
3. "Now that I have property, how much am I going to make off it?"
   [/list=1]
   I'm pretty sure you've got #1 covered. I don't know about number two. There are a couple of income systems out there, but they seem to cover medieval manors and dodge the idea of buying land or income sources entirely. Instead, they rely on getting grants of land and stuff like that. That's fine unless you're running a more Renaissance (or Roman, in my case) campaign where lots of buying and selling of property went on. Especially in the Renaissance. I'd like to see a book that talks about buying property and what you can expect to earn off of it. After all, not everyone can be the merchant moving goods around. Some merchants are going to be supplying the goods and some are going to be buying them. A broad range of commercial activity should be covered. After all, how well does medieval feudalism really work for most D&D campaigns? How many of us have NOT at some point had the PCs decide to hire workers and run the gold mine they just took from the bad guy themselves or something like that?
   
   Another good thing to cover might be a section for DMs/Worldbuilders telling them where particular types of goods can be found. Information could also be included about demand for various goods with advice to help DMs create logical trade routes. Perhaps some guidelines could be added about the sorts of population figures or wealth levels needed before certain goods will be in demand and so on.
   
   Magic will have to be addressed. Both the effect of magic on trade and why some kinds of magic are not practical. For instance, I just got done writing up a little treasie for my campaign explaining why teleportation magic is generally either impractical or unprofitable for trade, not to mention dangerous, unless shortened delivery times are worth a huge premium. On the other hand, merchants with access to long distance communication magic would have HUGE advantages over those who don't. Stuff like that.
   
   I imagine you'll already have to address the values of various trade goods, caravan supplies and wages. One of the things I see glossed over in other treatments of the subject (rare as they are) is the cost of maintenance and upkeep. Usually, folks try to address this subject with some sort of blanket number like 1% of the cost of the ship or something. I'd like to see something a bit more specific, like what it costs to maintain a person or an ox or a horse for a day or month or whatever, what it costs to keep up a ship or wagon or building of a certain size and what warehousing costs and so on. I realize a fair bit of generalizing is necessary, but I think things could at least be in two or three categories rather than the one blanket one that many systems use. One reason I ask this is because it helps folks like me who find themselves trying to work out various things for themselves. For instance, knowing how much it costs to feed a person can help calculate the overhead for all sorts of things. (Yes, I know there are prices for upkeep in the DMG. The problem is they're intended for PCs who are living transient lives, renting temporary lodgings and, except in the case of the poorest one, buying food already prepared. Most caravans, for instance, will not be providing lodgings since they're camping and will buy food in bulk and have a cook prepare it, which is cheaper than buying pre-made meals in an inn. Those numbers in the DMG do not cover this sort of upkeep.)
   
   Finally (for now), this strikes me as a good place to address something long griped about in D&D. The price list. Most people agree the price list has little to do with what goods actually cost in relation to one another given an pre-industrial economy. Perhaps an adjusted price list of some kind could be included. As I mentioned above, I imagine you'll already have to include some prices to address the values of various trade goods, caravan supplies and wages. Why not include a complete revision?. Perhaps you can present it as an appendix with alternate prices so as to give people a choice and not force them to adopt a new price scheme.

 

[Damon Griffin]

Commerce & Caravans

Now, let me troll for some input. What other things do people want to see in Commerce & Caravans?

The first thing that comes to mind is some information on what characters might expect when contemplating the acquisition and subsequent development of land for commericial purposes (including but not limited to the farming of cash crops.)

We've just hit kind of a wall in our current campaign because our characters have done a huge service for a very powerful ruler, and we're being rewarded with cash in the form of a matching fund we can use to purchase land and investment properties.

The problem is, there seem to be no d20 rules covering the purchase of land of any sort; all the sourcebooks that mention this sort of thing in any way either assume that you're "clearing a hex of wilderness" and staking a claim to land for which no one has to be paid, or that the local economy is based on the Medieval feudal system and you don't so much own the land as manage it for someone higher up the social ladder.

We're in a Roman Empire that avoiding being sacked by the barbarians and is now into its sixteeth century of continuous operation. Neither of the two conditions above applies to us. Fortunately our DM is a big history buff, so he's gradually working out some of the details, but he's having to do it all from scratch, and it is proving to be very hard to make the numbers behave.

Another thing I'd like to see in a commerce and trade book is a bit more realistic treatment of transport vehicles and containers. Added complexity for its own sake is a bad thing, and I don't want to turn a chapter of Commerce & Caravans into a physics text, but the existing 3e rules for carrying capacities, containers and transport vehicles are simplified to the point of absurdity.

For example, a wagon is defined by the PHB as a four-wheeled, open vehicle for transporting heavy loads, generally pulled by two horses. More specifically, we're told that a wagon weighs 400#, will carry 2 tons, and costs 35gp. This is apparently true of all wagons, regardless of design, construction or dimensions (no dimensions are given for the standard wagon.) Carrying capacity for a wagon seems to be fixed at 2 tons no matter how many horses (or mules, or elephants) are in harness. No mention is made of the increased power needed to pull a wagonload up a hill. Sure, you can haul 2 tons over level ground, now try it up a 30 degree incline for a length of six or eight miles. Different story.

Again, ultra-detailed treatment of this sort of thing would be unwelcome with most players, but some mention should be made that you can't load a wagon to its full capacity if you plan on negotiating hills or mountains, and the players should be given some idea of how much of their load needs to be cut back -- 10%? 40%? -- or how many draft animals will need to be added to make up the difference.