Critical Hits & Ongoing Damage

[Branduil]

So the regen takes care of the Wis damage for the cleric, and Cloudkill makes it 3d10+INT+WIS (Wizard and Cleric stats respectively) for the target. Its still just that and 2d10 per round for the cleric until the Cleric is bloodied. I still dont see how thats broken. Compare it to how much damage an entire party would do over the course of the rounds. Even with extra healing for the cleric, it just doesnt seem that broken for the cost of the constant damage to the cleric, and the inability for the rest of the party to do anything (except for a wizard with cloudkill). I may be wrong, but I just dont see it.

You don't see a problem with being able to automatically kill Orcus after two rounds?

 

[ForbidenMaster]

You don't see a problem with being able to automatically kill Orcus after two rounds?

How? Its 4d10+Wis+INT for the first round if both cloudkill and binding hit. After that its 3d10+Int+Wis per round with both cloudkill and binding, and the cleric takes 2d10 per round. So in two rounds thats 7d10+2Wis+2Int. Lets say the wizard and the cleric each have a 30 in their respective ability scores for a +10. Thats at a max 110 damage in two rounds with a max of 50 damage every round after that, with the cleric taking 20 damage per round starting with the second round. Orcus has 1,525 HP, not to mention the Aura of Death which the cleric must be in in order to be in range for his prayers.

Now maybe I messed up on the math somewhere, but I still dont see where its overpower, or how you can kill orcus in two rounds. Its definitely a very powerful combo, you are using dailies after all, but I still dont see how its broken.

Maybe if you had one cleric and a whole bunch of wizards all casting cloudkill. Assuming each had an int of 30, that would be a max of 20 damage per wizard per round. You would still need a hell of a lot of Wizards in order kill Orcus in two rounds.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Supposed Wisdom 26 (+8): This crit will make the initial damage do 38 damage on the initial hit... Will it also do its max damage (28) every round it's sustained?

No. Because there is no attack roll for the sustained damage, that damage cannot critical. It can max out but it can't crit.

Remember, a critical hit activates a lot of contingent special abilities: weapon / implement properties, feats, and features. None of these can activate if there is no attack roll.

 

[DracoSuave]

No. Because there is no attack roll for the sustained damage, that damage cannot critical. It can max out but it can't crit.

Remember, a critical hit activates a lot of contingent special abilities: weapon / implement properties, feats, and features. None of these can activate if there is no attack roll.

Player: 'So, I critted, so I do max damage to the monster, which is.... Blah.'
Me: 'Great, take blah damage.'
Player: 'But WAIT I---'
Me: 'Silly man, both you and the target take the same damage. Enjoy your trip to crit town, he's got more hps than you.'
Player: 'NooooOOOoo!'

 

[Xorn]

Page 278 seems to indicate that you only maximize damage related to the attack, so you would roll subsequent damage.

I agree with this. Would you roll the 2d10 if you hadn't gotten a critical hit? No, so the 2d10 on later rounds is not maximized. Only what you would have rolled normally for the hit is maximized.

 

[Branduil]

How? Its 4d10+Wis+INT for the first round if both cloudkill and binding hit. After that its 3d10+Int+Wis per round with both cloudkill and binding, and the cleric takes 2d10 per round. So in two rounds thats 7d10+2Wis+2Int. Lets say the wizard and the cleric each have a 30 in their respective ability scores for a +10. Thats at a max 110 damage in two rounds with a max of 50 damage every round after that, with the cleric taking 20 damage per round starting with the second round. Orcus has 1,525 HP, not to mention the Aura of Death which the cleric must be in in order to be in range for his prayers.

Now maybe I messed up on the math somewhere, but I still dont see where its overpower, or how you can kill orcus in two rounds. Its definitely a very powerful combo, you are using dailies after all, but I still dont see how its broken.

Maybe if you had one cleric and a whole bunch of wizards all casting cloudkill. Assuming each had an int of 30, that would be a max of 20 damage per wizard per round. You would still need a hell of a lot of Wizards in order kill Orcus in two rounds.

I didn't say you could kill Orcus in two rounds, I said you could kill him after two rounds. Because once he's in your Seal of Binding, he ain't getting out. A Cleric with a 30 Wisdom will get 30 regeneration each round, so he won't even take any damage until Orcus is bloodied. And once Orcus is bloodied the Cleric will have more than enough healing from himself and allies to prevent him from ever getting close to bloodied.

 

[erik_the_guy]

No, you do not deal critical hit damage unless you roll a critical hit. Since you do not roll to hit with the sustain power, you cannot score another critical.

I'm not sure what the second guy was talking about, but you can sustain the power if you miss with seal of binding, the stun and protection do not occur but the damage does (unless this has been corrected).

 

[DracoSuave]

I can't find this 'Divine Regeneration.'

It's not in -my- PHB, nor in D&DI.

Let's assume DR IS your Wisdom -score- per turn.

Orcus will take 2d10+Wis+Imp. which at Wis 30, and +6 Implement, is 2d10+16. This is an average of 27 damage/rnd, killing him in about 40 rounds.
That's after the cloudkill.
Cause Orcus is immune to it.
Cause you know, Immunity Poison and all that. But thanks for trying.

You'll take 2d10-4 damage/rnd, assuming that there's no minions raised up by his other abilities. This comes out to an average of 7.04 damage/round to you.

In order for this to be a break even proposition for you, you'd need to have 1525X7.04/27...

398 hit points. You get 19X5+12+con hp.... 107 hps + con... so...

If you have a Constitution of 291, you've got an even shot. I say GO FOR IT!

Unless there's something here I'm missing.

EDIT: GOOD NEWS!

If you can find a way to deal average damage of 62.46667 automatic damage/turn then you have a 50/50 shot of killing Orcus this way.

...until he is bloodied and the damage goes up...

...But still!

The halarious part of this combo is you actually don't want to roll high on your damage.

 

[Terwox]

Divine Regeneration is on p. 175. It is a level 26 demigod utility power.

 

[DracoSuave]

Divine Regeneration is on p. 175. It is a level 26 demigod utility power.

Thanks. Still, above math still stands as is.

Clerics can't Binding Orcus into oblivion.