Critique my tactic: Rogue + Invisibility + Fireball

[Plane Sailing]

Hi all,

I'm looking to throw a new "tactic" into my party repertoir. It goes as follows:

What is the particular purpose of this tactic? i.e. what do you especially hope to accomplish through it?

For instance, if the rogue is using a shortbow or other missile weapon he doesn't need the protection from fire because he's not going to be in the fireball radius anyhow.

Is it any different from the rogue starting the ambush by shooting his target and the wizard readying his action to drop the fireball on the enemy party as soon as the rogues shot happens?



An alternative (and potentially more viable) tactic would be to cast invisibility on a fighter with great cleave and a two handed weapon. If he is attacking after the fireball goes off and he is surrounded by targets with depleted hit points, he is much more likely to get his great cleave kicking in!

 

[Bagpuss]

Here's a better tactic, the invisible rogue stands in front of the wizard, with a long spear. The wizard fireballs, and the rogue sets his spear verse charge. When the ones that survive the fireball charge the sorcerer the rogue shafts them for normal damage, the additional set vs charge damage and sneak attack damage. If they continue past him he then gets an AoO on them as well.

The problem with your tactic is if more than one thing survives the fireball the rogue will find himself quickly surrounded and set on before support arrives.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Ultimatly the only way to acess the usefulness would be to try it, or ask your DM. There are too many factors to account for to give a meaningful give an analysis.

You have the possibility of your rogue standing in the middle of some injured (or possibly not injured if they have fire resistance or improved evasion). You also have challenges of the rogue getting that close without being spotted/heard, same even for the sorcerer 100' away runs some risk of being noticed by the targeted creature/group.

Assuming these risks are mitigated, the DM could have some rulings that could muss your system up. As mentioned, setting readied actions outside of combat is strictly not possible. Even coordinating a suprise round could be tricky. Technically if they have a chance to respond between the fireball and rogues attack, they should still be flat footed with respect to the rogue, but some DM's take objection to that.

 

[Sejs]

Detect Magic is:
Subject to Persistent Spell
Subject to Permanency
On the Bard, Cleric, Druid, and Sor/Wiz list.
Has higher-level versions that are faster and longer duration (Arcane Sight)
Penetrates Bariers (to a degree; you can be looking through up to three feet of wood or dirt, one foot of stone, or an inch of common metal (lead only needs a thin sheet)). Detect Magic, if you can run it all day somehow, actually makes quite the effective alarm system.

It doesn't have to just be the guy in the dress. A DM that actually reads the spell can set up some... fun... areas, especially when you're depending on magical stealth.

Guy in a dress is just my generic catchall for spellcasters And I agree with some of your points, particularly with the ability to see thru barriers, and that Arcane Sight would be the better way to go particularly due to the fact that it can pinpoint an aura's location instantly. There's a bit of a tipoff in that you've got glowing blue eyes, but if the rogue doesn't have any ranks in Spellcraft that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot to 'em.

The issue with running Detect Magic 24/7 is that you still have to concentrate to get any feedback, and when you're concentrating you're spending your standard action every round. That'd get mentally taxing after a while.

Arcane Sight though, with you 100% on.

(Re: telepathy)And how's that a problem if you try to abuse a tactic?

No problem at all It's just that telepathy on its own has no detection capabilities without the Mindsight feat.

Mind you, if you've got telepathy already, you really should pick up Mindsight. It's a damn handy tool.

 

[Thurbane]

Thanks all for the feedback. I'm trying to get my party to act as a more cohesive unit, and develop some predetermined maneuvres for specific situations. If we "rehearse" these ahead of time, it can give us a better chance when we use them for real...

 

[Darklone]

One advantage of having the rogue not directly next to the wizard: Stinking cloud.

 

[Jack Simth]

Guy in a dress is just my generic catchall for spellcasters And I agree with some of your points, particularly with the ability to see thru barriers, and that Arcane Sight would be the better way to go particularly due to the fact that it can pinpoint an aura's location instantly. There's a bit of a tipoff in that you've got glowing blue eyes, but if the rogue doesn't have any ranks in Spellcraft that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot to 'em.

The issue with running Detect Magic 24/7 is that you still have to concentrate to get any feedback, and when you're concentrating you're spending your standard action every round. That'd get mentally taxing after a while.

If you're just casting the spell over and over every caster level minutes, then yes. If you've gotten it Permanencied, or if you've Persisted it, you need no concentration to detect presence/absense. And that, too, works through barriers. If suddenly there's magic in an area where there normally isn't, you know someone's come calling.... and you can do so through a foot thick door. All the DM has to do is find some way that something that can cast Detect Magic can get it Persisted or Permanencied - say, via a lucky roll on a scroll, or Divine Metamagic, or just by being that high up in level.

Arcane Sight though, with you 100% on.

No problem at all It's just that telepathy on its own has no detection capabilities without the Mindsight feat.

Mind you, if you've got telepathy already, you really should pick up Mindsight. It's a damn handy tool.

Yeah.

 

[FalcWP]

Here's a better tactic, the invisible rogue stands in front of the wizard, with a long spear. The wizard fireballs, and the rogue sets his spear verse charge. When the ones that survive the fireball charge the sorcerer the rogue shafts them for normal damage, the additional set vs charge damage and sneak attack damage. If they continue past him he then gets an AoO on them as well.

Oh, now I *so* have to use this.

 

[Darklone]

Oh, now I *so* have to use this.

Works better with fighter rogues.

 

[KarinsDad]

Hi all,

I'm looking to throw a new "tactic" into my party repertoir. It goes as follows:

Sorcerer casts Invisibility on the party Rogue, and the Cleric (me) throws on a Protection From Energy: Fire.

I would suggest having the Cleric cast the Protection From Energy: Fire before the Sorcerer casts the Invisibility. It's not required, just easier.