Critique of a New PC Race

[Salad Shooter]

I had posted this on the home rules section, but I was hoping for a larger response, so..here it is.


For my homebrew campaign setting, Discordia, there are a few new races. Could you all take a look at this one and tell me what you think? Anything, good, bad, or ugly, is appreciated. I'm still not sure if they are balanced completely. Thanks!



Dendrayil: A race of Feline Humanoids.

Modifiers: +2 Dexterity, +1 to Intelligence and Wisdom. Dendrayil are graceful,
intelligent, and wise in the manners of the world. However, they are not as strong
as humans, nor as tough, and suffer -2 penalties to Strength and Constitution.

Size: Medium

Speed: 30 ft

Vision: Lowlight Vision

Racial Attack Bonuses: +2 vs. Divine Magic. Because of their fur, they recieve
a +1 fortitude save vs. Fire, and a -1 fortitude save vs. Cold.

Skill Bonuses: Dendrayel recieve +2 to the following attributes:
Listen (They have sharp cat ears)
Balance, Jump, Move Silently (The grace of a cat)
Climb (Their claws assist them in this)
However, they cannot take Ride or Swim as class skill, no matter what class they
are. Cats despise water, and what beast would want a giant cat riding on them?

Favored Class: Warrior. No Dendrayel can take any of the "Holy" classes (Cleric,
Priest, Paladin or Druid). They do not claim any god as their Patron Deity, nor
do any of the Gods claim sovereignty over them.

 

[El Seso]

Looks cool, but I think maybe the fort saves for cold/fire are backwards? Maybe I'm backwards, as I'm up to early.

 

[Salad Shooter]

Looks cool, but I think maybe the fort saves for cold/fire are backwards? Maybe I'm backwards, as I'm up to early.

I had gotten this on the other thread, too. My rational was that their fur would keep them warm, protecting them from the cold, and hair IS sort of flammable, and having nice smoldering stuff all over you probably wouldn't be any fun. I'll look into it, though.

 

[CCamfield]

Dendrayil: A race of Feline Humanoids.

Modifiers: +2 Dexterity, +1 to Intelligence and Wisdom. Dendrayil are graceful,
intelligent, and wise in the manners of the world. However, they are not as strong
as humans, nor as tough, and suffer -2 penalties to Strength and Constitution.

Shift one of the +1s into the other attribute. +2 to Wisdom, I would suggest, unless you're going to keep the religious restriction below, in which case the +2 to Wisdom isn't worth as much.

Racial Attack Bonuses: +2 vs. Divine Magic. Because of their fur, they recieve
a +1 fortitude save vs. Fire, and a -1 fortitude save vs. Cold.

What you wrote about this in subsequent posts goes against this section, which says to me you should rewrite it. e.g.

Racial Saving Throws: +2 vs. Divine Magic. Because of their fur, they recieve a +1 Fortitude save bonus to cold-based effects, and a -1 penalty to fire-based effects.

Skill Bonuses: Dendrayel recieve +2 to the following attributes:
Listen (They have sharp cat ears)
Balance, Jump, Move Silently (The grace of a cat)
Climb (Their claws assist them in this)
However, they cannot take Ride or Swim as class skill, no matter what class they
are. Cats despise water, and what beast would want a giant cat riding on them?

Well, actually, tigers like the water, but I guess these are more based on 'small' cats? Good bonuses.

If the Dendrayil have claws, then are those claws useful at all in combat?

Favored Class: Warrior. No Dendrayel can take any of the "Holy" classes (Cleric,
Priest, Paladin or Druid). They do not claim any god as their Patron Deity, nor
do any of the Gods claim sovereignty over them.

I have difficulty with this. There is religion without formal deities, like animism. (And you can have clerics who don't have a specific deity, which you could use to reflect that.) What this suggests is that not only do they not have any gods, but that they basically have no spirituality in their culture at all.

Edit: What about rangers? Rangers get nature-based spells; cutting out druids would suggest you have to cut them out too, or use an alternate ranger.

 

[hammymchamham]

Just a couple thoughts

Dendrayil: A race of Feline Humanoids.

Modifiers: +2 Dexterity, +1 to Intelligence and Wisdom. Dendrayil are graceful,
intelligent, and wise in the manners of the world. However, they are not as strong
as humans, nor as tough, and suffer -2 penalties to Strength and Constitution.

Never, ever, have a +1 or -1 to a stat.

Size: Medium

Speed: 30 ft

Vision: Lowlight Vision

Racial Attack Bonuses: +2 vs. Divine Magic. Because of their fur, they recieve +1 fortitude save vs. Fire, and a -1 fortitude save vs. Cold.

So do they get a +2 to attack rolls vs those who use Divine Magic? Or is this a saving throw bonus? Its very unclear

Skill Bonuses: Dendrayel recieve +2 to the following attributes:
Listen (They have sharp cat ears)
Balance, Jump, Move Silently (The grace of a cat)
Climb (Their claws assist them in this)
However, they cannot take Ride or Swim as class skill, no matter what class they
are. Cats despise water, and what beast would want a giant cat riding on them?

Favored Class: Warrior. No Dendrayel can take any of the "Holy" classes (Cleric,
Priest, Paladin or Druid). They do not claim any god as their Patron Deity, nor
do any of the Gods claim sovereignty over them.

Why a favored Class of an NPC class? If you want this to be a viable PC class, don't use a NPC class as a favored class. I'd never want such a restriction on a race I would play. How about favored Class: Ranger? They have some bonuses to Ranger skills? And they can't get ranks in 2 of the (already) limted Fighter skills

 

[Salad Shooter]

Re: Re: Critique of a New PC Race



1. If the Dendrayil have claws, then are those claws useful at all in combat?

2. I have difficulty with this. There is religion without formal deities, like animism. (And you can have clerics who don't have a specific deity, which you could use to reflect that.) What this suggests is that not only do they not have any gods, but that they basically have no spirituality in their culture at all.

3. Edit: What about rangers? Rangers get nature-based spells; cutting out druids would suggest you have to cut them out too, or use an alternate ranger.

1. We determined that they were too small to be used as weapons, but now that I think about it...

2. We're creating a world with a fairly heavy religious aspect. All of the races were created by the Gods, and they worship whichever of the Gods made them. However, the Dendrayil are a mystery, no one knows who created them. They simply are. It adds to their mystique, and since all magic of that sort comes from the Gods, it wouldn't make sense for them to use Divine Magic.

3. Rangers...hmm...hadn't thought about that. Thanks!

 

[mmu1]

Ok, let me see...

+1 Stat bonuses are bad. They're very useful to characters with a lot of odd scores, much less so to someone with even scores, and encourage min-maxing, especially if you use point-buy.

Their stat adjustments are not well balanced, if you go by the DMG guidelines: -2 STR and -2 CON are worth at least +2 DEX, +2 INT and +2 WIS for a race that doesn't have divine spellcasters. For that matter, I think having penalties to both STR and CON for a medium-sized race doesn't make sense, and is simply a bad idea anyway, effectively forcing anyone who plays this race into being an arcane spellcaster or a rogue, because you'd have to be a masochist to play a fighter-type with those adjustments.

The racial bonuses look ok, for the most part.

However, in terms of Ride and Swim, I'd go with giving them a racial penalty rather than saying they can't take those as class skills - it's too much of a penalty, and it's also kind of arbitrary. These aren't house cats, they're sentient creatures, they might be bad at it, but let them learn how to swim normally if they want to.

As far as the Ride restriction goes, I'm not sure where that comes from... If a horse will carry a half-orc, why not a large cat? (especially a weak and delicate cat ). Maybe also give them a penalty to Animal Handling, because a flat-out restriction doesn't fit the spirit of the rules very well...

Saving throw bonuses: Do they get a +2 to saves against divine magic? (I'm not sure, because you have "attack bonuses" written there) That definitely makes sense if they can't be divine casters (which should also include rangers, BTW), but the saves vs. Fire and Cold definitely seem reversed. It should be +1 vs. cold, -1 vs. fire by your logic.

Finally... Favored Class: Warrior? You never have an NPC class as a favored class, and giving these guys a combat-oriented favored class is kind of adding insult to injury... You'll notice the designers have always tried to make favored class for a race something their stats give them at least some predisposition to, in this case Warrior or Fighter is the absolute worst choice for one of these guys.

 

[Salad Shooter]

Re: Re: Critique of a New PC Race

Just a couple thoughts



Never, ever, have a +1 or -1 to a stat.

[/b]

Could you explain this?



So do they get a +2 to attack rolls vs those who use Divine Magic? Or is this a saving throw bonus? Its very unclear



Ah...yes..saving throw bonus. Thanks for pointing that out.



Why a favored Class of an NPC class? If you want this to be a viable PC class, don't use a NPC class as a favored class. I'd never want such a restriction on a race I would play. How about favored Class: Ranger? They have some bonuses to Ranger skills? And they can't get ranks in 2 of the (already) limted Fighter skills

Ooh...good call, I mistyped that. I had meant to say Fighter. I'll think about the Ranger thing, it does make sense.

 

[hammymchamham]

Never, ever, have a +1 or -1 to a stat.

Could you explain this?

As someone else wiser than I on these boards once pointed out, if you are rolling for stats (I am unsure how you do it), and roll say a 15 (not a bad roll) and I place that 15 in this creatures Intellegence or Wisdom, I will get a +1 to that stat, making it a 16, completly changing the modifer

Now if their was a -1 to a stat, and I roll that 15 and place it into a stat with a -1, I now have a 14, and really, their is little difference in rules terms between a 14 and a 15 (save for carry limits on Strength). The modifer is the same for a 14 and a 15.

And when we look at all the offical PC races and all the current rules on converting monsters to PC's (in the DMG), changes to modifiers are all even numbers, +2, -2, +6, -6 etc etc, not one instance of a +1 or -1 or anytihing in the DMG to suggest it

 

[Salad Shooter]

+1/-1 Stats

Got ya