Critters on the ceiling

[tobensg]

In the campaign I am running, the party just had its first encounter with a little white dragon. It worked them over with its breath weapon quite a bit doing a bit of damage here and there vs the resist energy protection that they had and used its fog cloud and blindsense to great effect. The little bugger used its ice walking ability to cling to the ceiling 15' up and harass the party a bit. One of the characters tried to claim that this was a little unfair to the melee fighters because each individual only takes up a 5' cube and couldnt actually reach the dragon without jumping. It got even worse when the dragon dropped another fog cloud in the room and by the rules and this persons interpretation the party couldnt ever see the dragon because it was more than 5' away. Are there rules that support this or are creatures on the roof the bane of 6'6" warriors with swords?

-Toben

 

[frankthedm]

Under the rules for jumping, medium creature s have a 8' verticle reach. So yes, fighters need to pull out their ranged weapons or be killed. In a foggy area, retreat to an area less advantagious. If someone thinks they are entitled not to have to leave a bad situation like that, all they are entitled to is a frigid demise.

 

[Dog Moon]

or are creatures on the roof the bane of 6'6" warriors with swords?

-Toben

By this logic, so are flying creatures, creatures standing on walls, creatures in trees, etc. Height is an importan thing in life and dnd. Warriors need to always have a ranged weapon or a way to get to creatures higher than them.

Personally, I woulda run the encounter the same way.

And what's wrong with jumping, especially if it means actually being able to hit your opponent?

 

[frankthedm]

By this logic, so are flying creatures, creatures standing on walls, creatures in trees, etc. Height is an importan thing in life and dnd. Warriors need to always have a ranged weapon or a way to get to creatures higher than them.

Personally, I woulda run the encounter the same way.

And what's wrong with jumping, especially if it means actually being able to hit your opponent?

Jump, maybe swing then suffer AoO sounded reckless?

 

[Dog Moon]

Well, okay, the AoO would suck, but I still stand by the rest of my statement!

 

[Whimsical]

Inform the player that out-of-reach opponets is a tactical scenario that their characters should be prepared for. This is a problem solving excercize with many solutions available. The player can choose to pursue the solutions, or the player can choose to lose. There are going to be situations which will work against every PCs weaknesses. Players should make sure that they have a Plan B and C on tap.

Tactical challenges are my kind of "puzzle" scenarios.

 

[moritheil]

That sounds kind of like having to inform the player that incorporeal opponents may be a possible scenario, which he should prepare for by getting a magic weapon, or that invisible opponents may be a possible scenario, or that opponents immune to sneak attack may be a possible scenario - in other words, it sounds like something a player should generally assume might happen sooner or later in any campaign.

 

[Whimsical]

Clearly his players are assuming something else. Such as: every encounter can be defeated with melee combat. Thus the explicitness.

 

[Simm]

The player should have remembered one of the basic rules of adventuring.

You will always need a 10 foot pole.

 

[Nel]

A white dragon that can cast fog cloud must be around the 4th/5th age category if I remember correctly, meaning that your players' characters must be of a decent level (at least I hope for them).
If they didn't understood before the importance of ranged attack or the concept of retreat then they will have to learn fast.

But whatever the outcome, don't help them on this one, even if their characters die.
A burned hand is better than a thousand of warnings.

EDIT: By the way, nice use of this monster's abilities, it's refreshing to see people use the encounters smartly.