Cry Havoc: Opinions?

[ptolemy18]

Hello everybody,

I'm looking for a mass combat system (the one in TESTAMENT is interesting, but doesn't have enough monsters & magic built into it), and I was all ready to pick up CRY HAVOC when suddenly people started talking about this other mass combat system, SLAVELORDS OF (insert forgotten name here).

I'm still inclined to check out CRY HAVOC because of the Monte Cook seal of approval. Could anyone tell me more about it? Could anyone compare-and-contrast CRY HAVOC to SLAVELORDS? In the other thread, I did hear that SLAVELORDS uses "CR" as a factor in its large-scale battles, which doesn't sound very appealing to me since I never, ever calculate CR for my NPCs (unless they're just generic templates taken from the MONSTER MANUAL, in which case it's already calculated, of course).

Jason

 

[drnuncheon]

Slavelords system is much more high-level, less detailed approach, conglomerating forces and comparing them based on EL. (BTW, Slavelords of Cydonia is an entire campaign, not just a mass combat system - but you can get the mass combat system separately as a PDF.)

Cry Havoc is of a detail level similar to regular D&D combat.

That should help you decide.

J

 

[The_Universe]

I like cry havoc, but it can involve a lot of number crunching for large battles.

 

[Old One]

Two Different Approaches...

Jason,

This is comparing apples and oranges. The Mass Combat extract from SLoC (Slavelords) is about 10 pages long and comes with an automated spreadsheet to calculate the prime number used in the system, the all-encompassing Battle-Rating. The system is simple, flexible, FAST and pretty much scales from squad size actions to armies of tens of thousands.

All you need to know is what type of creatures are fighting and how many of them there are. You can build mixed units (or simply aggregate an entire army into one big unit) or keep different types of units seperate - it just depends on the level of detail you want.

You can play with or without a battlemat and there enough little bells and whistles to keep an old wargamer like me happy - strategic decisions, formations, accomodation for big magic throwers, ability for PCs to interact at several different levels. I took a look at Cry Havoc - but I wanted something quick, accurate and easily playable.

The Bad Axe Mass Combat system fits the bill perfectly...plus it is only $1.95!

EDIT: As far as the mechanic, it essentially assumes that a creature's combat ability is reflected more or less accurately in it's CR, so making the CR to EL conversion works well on a scalable level. I suppose that if you are using highly modified creatures and don't calculate the CR for them, this won't be of much use to you...but adding a PC/NPC into a unit is very simple.

~ Old One

 

[barsoomcore]

I bought Cry Havoc and have gotten ZERO use out of it. Maybe if I was more of a minis guy it would have been more useful, but honestly I'm not sure it's a really playable system. Haven't seen the Slavelords material but the brief comments and explanations I've seen on the boards have interested me greatly.

Mainly, Cry Havoc doesn't seem to support LARGE armies very well -- it's more for using several units of 20-30 individuals and maneuvering them around a battlemap. I guess.

I'm not very familiar with either system, though, so YMMV.

 

[johnsemlak]

In addition to it's miniatures based system, Cry Havoc also has a quick resolution system to resolve battles in a few die roles. The system generally gets better reveiws than it's miniature-based system.

 

[Garnfellow]

Hello everybody,

I'm looking for a mass combat system (the one in TESTAMENT is interesting, but doesn't have enough monsters & magic built into it), and I was all ready to pick up CRY HAVOC when suddenly people started talking about this other mass combat system, SLAVELORDS OF (insert forgotten name here).

I'm still inclined to check out CRY HAVOC because of the Monte Cook seal of approval. Could anyone tell me more about it? Could anyone compare-and-contrast CRY HAVOC to SLAVELORDS? In the other thread, I did hear that SLAVELORDS uses "CR" as a factor in its large-scale battles, which doesn't sound very appealing to me since I never, ever calculate CR for my NPCs (unless they're just generic templates taken from the MONSTER MANUAL, in which case it's already calculated, of course).

Jason

I cannot recommend the Cry Havoc Unit Combat system*, which is also used in Green Ronin's Advanced Player's Manual. The unit system is pretty detailed, but only handles fairly small engagements of up to a couple hundred troops. I find the mechanics a little awkward and there is some strange funkitude in the scaling rules. There are a couple of good reviews here on EnWorld that give the pros and cons. I really wish I had read Psion's review before I bought my copy.

Somewhere in this forum there's a fantastic thread giving detailed comparisons between the various mass combat systems. For my money, no one system has yet emerged that really fits the bill. Fields of Blood probably comes closest to date -- although the systems presented in the Black Company Campaign Book look to blow away all comers. I need to read some more, though, before rendering judgement.

*Cry Havoc also has a SECOND mass combat system, designed to handle entire wars. Obviously the resolution is very grainy, but most folks seem to like it a lot more than the unit system.

 

[Narfellus]

I picked up Slavelords pdf mass combat today and skimmed thru it. It is highly condensed, logical, and best of all looks fun. I have Cry Havoc too but never got the chance to run it thru an actual scenario. I came away from that product sorta confused from all the number crunching involved; it demands a calculator. I would vote for the Grim product. It's short, but that doesn't mean simple or lacking detail. It actually has a huge amount of options, such as Strategic Objectives: Control, Cut Communication, Demoralize, Divide, Fortify, Outmaneuver, Overwhelm, depending on whether ground is Open, Taken, partially taken, dangerous, inhabited, etc. You calculate a Battle Rating (BR) based on EL and CR of the critters involved, and from there it's similar to round to round combat: roll initiative, the commander commands, moves troops, you can charge, etc. The fact that they put together such a cohesive system in such a short space is nothing short of amazing. I always though by default that mass combat should be massively complex, but this system is sweet.

 

[MarauderX]

Fields of Blood by Eden Studios is what I use. It can be as detailed or as general as you would like it to be, plus it includes rules for realm management, spells and devices for war, and covers having your PCs as rulers. Cry Havoc is mediocre to Fields of Blood IMO.

 

[Gundark]

Fields of Blood by Eden Studios is what I use. It can be as detailed or as general as you would like it to be, plus it includes rules for realm management, spells and devices for war, and covers having your PCs as rulers. Cry Havoc is mediocre to Fields of Blood IMO.

Yep, I agree, another vote for fields of blood.