Cry Havoc: Opinions?

[TerraDave]

Another Mass Combat System Thread!

In addition to it's miniatures based system, Cry Havoc also has a quick resolution system to resolve battles in a few die roles. The system generally gets better reveiws than it's miniature-based system.

Right. Many years ago, the D&D Companion Set had the War Machine, a system where you could resolve combat between units or armies with a few die rolls and without minis or counters manuevering on a tabletop or battlemat.

Cry Havoc has a system that is basically a direct descendent of this, the Slavelords excerpt is in the same spirit, and there are a few other ones out there as well.

Now, if you want to have unit manuevering around on a tabletop, then you can try Cry Havoc. Some people like it, but as has been indicated others really do have issues with it. I personally was a little disapointed, but haven't really play-tested it.

Also, I would be interested in hearing more on what the Black Company is like in this regard, since it hasn't been discussed in any of the past mass combat threads.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

I have Cry Havoc and was one of the playtesters. I don't have the new system to compare. CH is well designed for someone wanting a battle on a pseudo-medieval scale. (I.e in modern times we get to battles with thousands. In the past, it was units of hundreds.) The one thing that I do think is a tad clunky, but is in any system where you're trying to apply dungeon spells to a battlefield, is in spell use. My own houserule is to use the CH rules, but with a scale factor of 4 (not 10), for the area. That seems to divide a lot better into typical D&D areas. Since I use unit sizes and armies in the hundreds it comes out fine. CH is mainly designed to put the PCs into the midst of the battle and let them be heroes. Other systems are designed to resolve a battle.

 

[Lucias]

I've tried nearly every mass combat system for d20 and it was only two days ago that I found one that matched my play style...the Slavelords Mass Combat PDF mentioned earlier in this thread.

Simple, fast, and easy to use with or without minis/counters, you just can't go wrong. I only wish it would give the formula for calculating EL, which I think is in the main book, instead of just the calculator, but only because I can't take the calculator on the fly.

Seriously, you can't go wrong with this for under two bucks.

I plan on using this in combination with Field of Blood's realm rules sometime in the future.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I only wish it would give the formula for calculating EL, which I think is in the main book, instead of just the calculator, but only because I can't take the calculator on the fly.

I'm happy to share the formula. I just hope you can do logarithms on the fly.

EL = 1 + (2 • log2(power)), where power is the sum of each creature's CR squared.

Seriously, you can't go wrong with this for under two bucks.

Well, then in that case I recommend the Gamemastering PDF, also for under 2 bucks, which reveals the above formula and a lot of other good stuff-- and has an EL calculator and an XP tracker, too.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4036&SRC=EnWorld


Wulf

 

[MerricB]

In addition to it's miniatures based system, Cry Havoc also has a quick resolution system to resolve battles in a few die roles. The system generally gets better reveiws than it's miniature-based system.

Pity that it's only about 10 pages in a 134 page book.

 

[reanjr]

Hello everybody,

I'm looking for a mass combat system (the one in TESTAMENT is interesting, but doesn't have enough monsters & magic built into it), and I was all ready to pick up CRY HAVOC when suddenly people started talking about this other mass combat system, SLAVELORDS OF (insert forgotten name here).

I'm still inclined to check out CRY HAVOC because of the Monte Cook seal of approval. Could anyone tell me more about it? Could anyone compare-and-contrast CRY HAVOC to SLAVELORDS? In the other thread, I did hear that SLAVELORDS uses "CR" as a factor in its large-scale battles, which doesn't sound very appealing to me since I never, ever calculate CR for my NPCs (unless they're just generic templates taken from the MONSTER MANUAL, in which case it's already calculated, of course).

Jason

I can't compare it to Slavelords, but Cry Havoc is a pretty solid system that unfortunately suffers from a bit of complexity and loss of the D20 feel. It is, however, fairly complete, with mixed units working just as well in the system as homogenous, spell clarifications, etc. It's a good system to use, if you want to actually fight the battle out, and still have the level of detail that you are not going to have to make judgement calls that often.

I am personally much more fond of systems that algorithmically create single, powerful, swarmlike units from multiple, identical (or very similar) units. That way, you can use them against single opponents (dragon, 20th level fighter) and the system still works fairly well, which is great for having PCs involved.

 

[Lucias]

I'm happy to share the formula. I just hope you can do logarithms on the fly.

Well, then in that case I recommend the Gamemastering PDF, also for under 2 bucks, which reveals the above formula and a lot of other good stuff-- and has an EL calculator and an XP tracker, too.

Wulf

Thanks, Wulf. I picked up all of the GT pdfs on RPGnow as I like what I've seen. Can't wait to dig into them. Thanks for the help!

 

[reanjr]

I'm happy to share the formula. I just hope you can do logarithms on the fly.

EL = 1 + (2 • log2(power)), where power is the sum of each creature's CR squared.

Base 2 and 10 logs on the fly are easy Just for clarification, do you mean "(sum of each creature's CR) squared", or do you mean "sum of each (creature's CR squared)" ?

[edit] If it were the former, you would just multiply the log by 2, so I guess it's the latter.

 

[TerraDave]

Still Yet Another Mass Combat Thread

I have Cry Havoc and was one of the playtesters. I don't have the new system to compare. CH is well designed for someone wanting a battle on a pseudo-medieval scale. (I.e in modern times we get to battles with thousands. In the past, it was units of hundreds.) .

It is always great to hear from one of the playtesters, but Medieval and even ancient battles (at least any you may have heard of) had thousands or even tens of thousands of participants. And there is no shortage of "small wars" in modern times, I think some are even happening right now...

 

[JoeGKushner]

I've used Cry Havoc for some battles involving city guards numbering in the 20-30 range a gainst skeletons being raised from a graveyard numbering 40-50.

I've also used it for a few minor demon units numbering 20 versus larger units of human warriors at about 50.

For anything where hundreds of people are going to be fighting, I generally use Fields of Blood, but that's rare in my game to the point of, "Well, I could spend four hours writing up the units for this one fight or wing it." Wingining it usually wins!