Cthulhu and violence

[Narfellus]

Mainly because one player had had a bad week at the office, and the rest decided to go along with it. So violence will go badly in some cases.

I wholeheartedly agree. My guys are in the habit that violence will solve everything. Eventually they'll learn, probably the hard way, that it will only solve SOME things.

And i checked out the posts on RPGnet. Seems like the argument is that default CoC convinces you not to make combat-oriented characters, and then throws them into combat with a flashlight. Me, I have them anticipate combat, and give them access to reasonable weapons in 1928.

 

[jester47]

Well, the old saying goes in CoC, "If you have to resort to violence, you've failed." Believe it or not, it's still true, because you're resorting to violence when you have to blow the tentacly thing back to the stone age because you couldn't stop him from coming.

There is a good example of this axiom in the real world. Lately on NPR they have been running a series on the legacy of the Y2K bug. Basicly what they are saying is that the Y2K bug was a real threat. Stuff did shut down and go wonky on New Years Day 2000. Just not that much stuff. The reason was that the government and all these companies threw tons of money at the problem and fixed it on schedule. So there were no fireworks as a result. Most of the work was outsourced to India because due to certain restrictions they only had access to the old dated systems and thus had more experts on them than anyone else. So the solution was unseen.

The really big threat stopped before it gets anywhere is often re-evaluated into being a non-threat. I know this first hand, I work in web security.

Aaron.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Hear, hear!

I think alot of the "there's no point in carrying a gun" comes from the emphasis placed on research. So many of Lovecraft's characters were artists, academics, antiquarians, and the like. But it seems like many of the game designers failed to note that, well, a lot of them were armed, too!

Sure, Dr. Armitage and the guys who stopped Yog Sothoth's spawn at Dunwich Mountain had some magic dust and some prepared spells, but there's plenty of shotguns and pistols and dynamite and naval ordinance in the stories as well, often used with surprising effectiveness (as Nisarg noted, Great Cthulhu himself gets a ship bowsprit to the forehead and dissolves. Sure, he's still around, but hey, problem solved for now . . . essentially).

I think it's important for players going into the game to realize that they better be prepared for a scrap, because it'll probably happen. BUT, it's also important to realize that your police special .38 is NOT going to do much when some of the bigger bad things show up. They're the Mongo of role-playing games: if you shoot them, you'll just make them mad. But cultists and deep ones? Line 'em up, break out the firearms.

I try to tell my players that guns are particularly dangerous to the players, because chances are they'll go mad and turn the weapon on themselves or their fellows.

So, basically, [Delmer from Oh Brother! Where Art Thou] I'm with you fellers [/Delmer from Oh Brother! Where Art Thou]

Dynamite, grenades, high explosives, bullets, trench knives, baseball bats, axes. It's all good! Except when it isn't.

Warrior Poet

 

[jester47]

When did Cthulhu get run over by a ship?

A.

 

[Nisarg]

When did Cthulhu get run over by a ship?

A.

In the short story, "The Call of Cthulhu". Its only the basis of the RPG's title, and the big bad is killed by a ship ramming into his head. That should tell you the role of violence in CoC.

Nisarg

 

[Gomez]

When did Cthulhu get run over by a ship?

A.

In H.P. Lovecraft's "Call of Cthulhu", Cthulhu's head gets rammed by a ship. Since his head was about the only thing above the water at the time. His head got pulped into a greenish mist. It basically reformed good as new a few seconds later.

But Johansen had not given out yet. Knowing that the Thing could surely overtake the Alert until steam was fully up, he resolved on a desperate chance; and, setting the engine for full speed, ran lightning-like on deck and reversed the wheel. There was a mighty eddying and foaming in the noisome brine, and as the steam mounted higher and higher the brave Norwegian drove his vessel head on against the pursuing jelly which rose above the unclean froth like the stern of a daemon galleon. The awful squid-head with writhing feelers came nearly up to the bowsprit of the sturdy yacht, but johansen drove on relentlessly. There was a bursting as of an exploding bladder, a slushy nastiness as of a cloven sunfish, a stench as of a thousand opened graves, and a sound that the chronicler could not put on paper. For an instant the ship was befouled by an acrid and blinding green cloud, and then there was only a venomous seething astern; where - God in heaven! - the scattered plasticity of that nameless sky-spawn was nebulously recombining in its hateful original form, whilst its distance widened every second as the Alert gained impetus from its mounting steam.

 

[JoeGKushner]

When WoTC did Cthulhu d20, Chaosim had the great idea to do Pulp Cthulhu.

Well, we all see where they went, but it does showcase that Cthulhu can be played in a wide variety of ways.

 

[Henry]

Actually, to be accurate, the Norweigan sailor who DIDN'T go insane on the boat when he appeared backed it up and slammed the propellers into him, chopping him up long enough to make a getaway. It's probably the first instance of that tried and true horror movie tactic EVER told. Now it's a staple - the hero slams a chainsaw/slingblade/knife/shotgun blast into the monster and it incapacitates it JUST long enough to get away.

 

[Desdichado]

No, he rammed him with the front of the ship. I just reread this yesterday to make sure I wasn't off base when arguing on rpg.net about what happened in that story.

To be honest with you, I've always thought a lot of the "violence is useless in CoC" vibe came from anti-D&D elitists, many of whom sing the praises of CoC to no end. Many of these are the same that prophesied the End Times when CoC got ported into d20. Most of these are the same that forget that the original CoC system was ported over from Runequest with very little change.

The fact of the matter is that according to the rules, violence is quite often the best solution to most problems. And according to most Keepers, or GMs or whatever you want to call them as well. For every story like Henry's where violence goes horribly wrong and is a symptom of a game already out of control, there've gotta be at least 20 where violence heroically staves off Mythos incursions. Heck, I could tell you my story of killing nearly half a dozen Deep Ones with my 1971 Chevy Chevelle in a modern era Cthulhu game (much to the keeper's annoyance, I might add) but what's the point? Even the classic Cthulhu campaigns/mega-adventures pretty much expect -- in fact demand -- that violence be used to solve the situation at some point.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Even the classic Cthulhu campaigns/mega-adventures pretty much expect -- in fact demand -- that violence be used to solve the situation at some point.

Yup. Narfellus mentioned upthread Escape from Innsmouth. I recall a section of that adventure specifically titled: THE SHOOTOUT. Buncha Deep Ones with shotguns and pistols in a mechanics garage. Tommy gun time!

I like in-depth role-playing as much as the next person, and I really like games that have good mechanics and emphasis on things like research, plotting, diplomatic solutions, behind-the-scenes machinations, discovery, spying, and so forth. But, I also like to fight monsters, too, with sword or submachine gun alike. I prefer my Cthulhu with plenty of spooky fright, dawning horror, esoteric knowledge, terrible things humans were not meant to know, and strange locations, mixed up with a nice chunk of good old fashioned gunplay and axe-handle brawls. I don't believe every hunting horror should be dropped with a few well placed .30-06 rounds, but I don't see why a 75mm field piece wouldn't give the thing something to respect. A creature like Tsathoggua, on the other hand, ought to catch that 75mm shell in its mouth, grin, and spit it back at the party. It's a question of scale, and knowing which things need to be sent back to hell with a mind-melting spell or a healthy dose of force=mass times acceleration.

Warrior Poet