Cthulhu vs. the Tarrasque

[HeavenShallBurn]

And in the period it was written with the horrors of the First World War still fresh in the minds of the generation that had seen them it would have struck a deep chord with their own fears and inner demons.

Regarding the systems not meant to be compatible I have not played CoC when the poster said that deities in CoC were unkillable I took that as face value. That they could not be permanently killed and even in the unlikely event they were overcome would reform back in the void beyond. Is that the mechanical situation, that such an entity cannot be permanently killed? If so it would presume a basic incompatibility in the rational behind the mechanics even if both being d20 systems they can be intermingled would it not?

 

[Falkus]

I disliked the themes and motifs of his work and feel that the way he wields the memes that true knowledge will drive men mad as they are inherently unable to handle it and the inevitability of a dark and horrid fate mankind can not prevent are disgusting in their weakness and the renouncement of responsibility for ones own fate. His writing was not bad by any means I simply find the ideas he used reprehensible from an ethical standpoint and reserve the right to criticize him as I will. I have not attacked you, do not attack me.

IT makes more sense when you realize that in Cthulhu Mythos, mankind wasn't meant to exist in the first place.

Is that the mechanical situation, that such an entity cannot be permanently killed?

In CoC, all deities have the Immortality quality, in which they can only be killed in special circumstances.

If so it would presume a basic incompatibility in the rational behind the mechanics even if both being d20 systems they can be intermingled would it not?

The deities in d20 CoC were designed specifically for DnD combat. I don't quite get your point. Cthulhu and other mythos deities are not your run of the mill Greyhawk or Faerun god, who is essentially a normal guy with a few extra tricks. They have different rules for being killed because they are different, in every possible (and a few impossible) definitions of the word different.

 

[Jim Hague]

I've read Howard and I don't mind his take on the Lovecraft Mythos so much. Derleth I haven't read. Regarding Lovecraft I've read precisely two of his stories, one involving the scientist who discovers that the air is really monsters and The Call of Cthulu itself though that was nearly a decade ago.

I don't think two stories is enough to judge the man by, considering the full body of his work, honestly.

I disliked the themes and motifs of his work and feel that the way he wields the memes that true knowledge will drive men mad as they are inherently unable to handle it and the inevitability of a dark and horrid fate mankind can not prevent are disgusting in their weakness and the renouncement of responsibility for ones own fate. His writing was not bad by any means I simply find the ideas he used reprehensible from an ethical standpoint and reserve the right to criticize him as I will. I have not attacked you, do not attack me.

By your own admission, you've read precisely two stories (From Beyond and The Call of Cthulhu) nearly a decade ago, but you're calling your opinion informed? I won't disagree that nihilism is a pretty cowardly viewpoint, but before you go criticizing the man, go pick up his Dreamlands stories and do a little bit of research into Lovecraft himself. Seriously, you'll be better off for it, since the influence he has on the body of modern fantasy and horror literature is incredible.

The world of the Mythos is most assuredly not our own, but a terrible mirror where these themes are played out. Something to keep in mind.

 

[Falkus]

That's a bit deep for me, but I've never really been that big on analyzing stories. I just think the stories are a good read, and make for a refreshing change of pace from the heroic fantasy I usually prefer.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

The deities in d20 CoC were designed specifically for DnD combat. I don't quite get your point. Cthulhu and other mythos deities are not your run of the mill Greyhawk or Faerun god, who is essentially a normal guy with a few extra tricks. They have different rules for being killed because they are different, in every possible (and a few impossible) definitions of the word different.

Thank you that makes much more sense now. Mechanically they were designed to work under DnD combat rules and thus can be mixed with standard DnD creations even fight them. I may be wrong but I'm thinking that behind the mechanics the overall rationale of the CoC setting is such that they are never really supposed to be "fought" or "killed" in the sense of really anything in DnD. They are meant to represent the unfathomable horror of that which lurks beyond and in such are supposed to be averted but cannot be truly destroyed. Thus they are meant to confront those with no hope of truly destroying them and to make the contest more equitable is in a way not true to what they are intended to represent.

I will trust those with experience if the mechanics say Cthulu wins and wins easily then it is. Of course perhaps a face-off between Cthulu and the God-Eater(CR90 something templated Tarrasque) would be quite entertaining as long as you weren't there.

 

[Jim Hague]

Thank you that makes much more sense now. Mechanically they were designed to work under DnD combat rules and thus can be mixed with standard DnD creations even fight them. I may be wrong but I'm thinking that behind the mechanics the overall rationale of the CoC setting is such that they are never really supposed to be "fought" or "killed" in the sense of really anything in DnD. They are meant to represent the unfathomable horror of that which lurks beyond and in such are supposed to be averted but cannot be truly destroyed. Thus they are meant to confront those with no hope of truly destroying them and to make the contest more equitable is in a way not true to what they are intended to represent.

I will trust those with experience if the mechanics say Cthulu wins and wins easily then it is. Of course perhaps a face-off between Cthulu and the God-Eater(CR90 something templated Tarrasque) would be quite entertaining as long as you weren't there.

Well, there's no permanently defeating the Big C (who is, honestly, middle management in the grand scheme of things, an immoral alien, rather than a god)...but I've often found you can get some very heroic results when characters try, despite knowing the personal cost. While the defeat of the Mythos for a decade ultimately has little meaning to the creatures of the Mythos, that's another decade mankind continues to fight on. And from humanity's perspective, delusional it may be, that's really all that matters.

 

[ValhallaGH]

It's not like you can ever really keep the Tarrasque down, either. Sure, you can hammer it into unconsciousness and wish it away but that only keeps it away for a time. It always comes back and needs to be fought off again.

So immortal alien semi-deity versus immortal god-scaring scourge of the world.

That sounds like a mighty fine and fair encounter to me.

 

[Jim Hague]

It's not like you can ever really keep the Tarrasque down, either. Sure, you can hammer it into unconsciousness and wish it away but that only keeps it away for a time. It always comes back and needs to be fought off again.

So immortal alien semi-deity versus immortal god-scaring scourge of the world.

That sounds like a mighty fine and fair encounter to me.

I'd say a cooler and potentially more plot-hook producing fight'd be one of the world-ending horrors like Dholes vs. the mighty Tarrasque. Hell, slap the pseudonatural template on the Tarrasque and it turns into a mythos creature...

Hmm...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

By your own admission, you've read precisely two stories (From Beyond and The Call of Cthulhu) nearly a decade ago, but you're calling your opinion informed?

How many bites of a dish does one have to eat to know they don't enjoy it?

I know this is the Internet, but him not liking something (something that's a niche of a genre, at that) does not make him uniformed, it means he has different tastes than you.

 

[Allensh]

When did my silly little thread about two really huge monsters with D20 stats fighting each other turn into a quasi-serious literary discussion/flame war?

Allen