D&D 5E Curse of Strahd - Need some rules lawyers

[xXToYeDXx]

I'm playing a Cleric, currently 7th level, in a Curse of Strahd Campaign. So far the game has gone quite well. Only 2 PC deaths, and those were in the Death House. The players rolled new characters and we haven't had a death since.

However, we are now 7th level, using the milestone system, and we still have at least 2 other milestones to reach. I think I broke the Strahd encounter.

To be clear I have not read ahead in the adventure. I have no idea what the encounter is going to be like. However, according to the rules as I understand them, I think I broke it.

Our Paladin can use the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind to Hold Vampire on Strahd while I, the Cleric, Create Water at a high enough level to create enough of it and then use Control Water to make it flow. Would a paralyzed Strahd being held in flowing water mean he dies?

Our DM is looking into more but he thinks it's fully within the rules.

 

[Prakriti]

Is it within the rules? I dunno. More importantly, is it fun?

 

[xXToYeDXx]

My DM thinks it is within the rules, but he's looking into it more.

Is it fun? Not particularly. If it is perfectly legal it's still cheesy as hell. I admit I enjoy finding ways to cheese games, whether tabletop or video, however that cheese isn't really fun to use while actually playing. It's like finding glitches in video games. It's fun to hunt them down and see them in action. However while playing the game the way it was intended the cheese kind of ruins it. I just want to know if this is real cheese or if there is something in the rules I'm missing that would prevent this from working.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Most DMs I've heard of didn't think that would count as "running water" for purposes of the vulnerability. But if your DM likes killing vampires by turning the shower on, that's his right.

It definitely wouldn't have worked in a rule-heavy edition like 3.5/PF.

 

[xXToYeDXx]

So far our DM hasn't house ruled anything. He skipped 1 encounter for lack of time one session, but nothing else. We've pretty much been playing according to the rules as written.

 

[Rils]

Without spoilering anything here, I would encourage your DM to review the two items in Strahd's stat block that come after "Shapechanger", particularly the one immediately after it.

For the OP, keep in mind that in order for the paralyzation to work, first Strahd has to fail a saving throw against the holy symbol, and then he has to keep on failing it round after round until he's taken enough damage from the running water to kill him. The paralyzation lasts for one minute, and without giving too much away, even if Strahd failed 10 straight saving throws (10 rounds @ 6 seconds/round), the damage he takes from running water isn't enough to kill him. The moment he succeeds on a saving throw, he's going to move out of the water. There are a lot more efficient ways to kill him. Points for creativity though!

 

[ad_hoc]

Strahd won't fail the saving throw.

 

[DeanP]

What if I hold Strahd's head under a sink?

 

[pming]

Hold his head under the sink? No...you're thinking too small! What you have to do is give Strahd a swirly in the boys bathroom! That'll teach that smug sumuvabeech!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Mad_Jack]

So... If you pee on his head and tell him it's a river, does he get to roll to disbelieve? lol

I'm pretty sure the rules don't actually cover this situation, but I think the intent (and the tradition, for whatever that's worth) is probably that they need to be submerged in a continuous source of running water like a stream or something - at least in the IRL tradition, it's the continually renewing nature of the water that makes it potent.
As far as the mechanical rules go, as others have stated it might work in theory, but good luck trying to keep Strahd held long enough to do more than knock some HP off him...

Tangential anecdote: Back in 4th Grade, we used to play on Saturdays after Catholic Catechism class ("Sunday school") and our teacher Sister Maria was the party cleric. She was new to the game and I was going seriously rules-lite on her character.
The party were getting their posteriors handed to them by a bloodsucker in the wine cellar that it was using for a crypt. It had Sister Maria the Benevolent jacked up by the neck with one hand and was pimp-slapping the fighter with the other.
When Sister Maria's turn came around, she stood there silently thinking for quite some time... And then announced that her character reached back to the shelf behind her and seized two jugs of water. She then recited, in character, the exact ritual that Catholic priests use to make Holy Water...
And smashed the jugs together with the vamp's head inbetween them.
The entire table was silent for almost a full minute, then we just looked at each other, shrugged, and I began describing how the thing burst into flames and died horribly.
(I mean, what else could I do, y'know? lol... Oh, and Public Service Announcement: never roll dice with the clergy - I swear that woman could roll a natural 20 on a D6...)

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

It's a fun premise, and there is no actual rule on it as written. Similarly, the "forbiddance" is likewise completely up to DM ruling as a weakness. After all, who according to rules can "invite" a Vampire in and what constitutes a residence vs a public building?

For myself, I take reference to what is traditional folklore regarding vampires. "Running water" in this sense refers to a body of water that is not at rest, i.e. a river or ocean. It references classic works like Dracula in which vampires cannot cross such bodies of water without aid. The point of this weakness isn't to kill a vampire, but keep it at bay.

I would rule therefore that casting move water on conjured water would not work. However, I would all controlling still water from a preexisting lake to qualify.

 

[pukunui]

Our Paladin can use the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind to Hold Vampire on Strahd while I, the Cleric, Create Water at a high enough level to create enough of it and then use Control Water to make it flow. Would a paralyzed Strahd being held in flowing water mean he dies?

First of all, as ad_hoc pointed out, Strahd isn't going to fail that saving throw. That aside, I personally would not count "flowing water" as "running water". I'm pretty sure the latter term, at least in the context of vampires, is meant to be limited to rivers and streams and the like.

 

[guachi]

[O]ur teacher Sister Maria was the party cleric.

Because of course she was.

The entire anecdote is fantastic. But this quoted part is probably the best gaming related thing I've read all month.

 

[Mad_Jack]

Well, you see, we had been playing in the parking lot after class, using a map drawn in the dirt and rocks for tokens, lol...
And then Sister Maria found us huddled in a doorway one time when it was raining, trying to keep our character sheets from getting wet or blowing away, and offered to let us use the classroom. Since she had to stay with us in order for us to use the room, we taught her to play.
(The whole Satanic Panic thing never really caught on in my neighborhood...)

Since she wasn't a gamer, I didn't bother with giving her spells, and just told her that her character could perform any miracle that one of the Saints had... So she walked around with no armor and no weapon except for her walking stick, gave all her gold away to the poor, layed on hands on every last stubbed toe and booboo in town, and fed every last small furry forest animal she crossed paths with, lol. She enjoyed herself immensely.

 

[Zilong]

I know this talk of gaming nuns is rather off topic, but that nun and her character sounds like they would have been awesome to have in most gaming groups.

 

[cmad1977]

I, for one, will have nun of this off topic conversation.


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[Eltab]

So... If you pee on his head and tell him it's a river, does he get to roll to disbelieve? lol

You're only doing about 1 HP per turn to him with that. ... Unless you had previously fortified yourself with a keg of alcoholic drink (an Ever-Full Cask of Dwarven Brew?) or something.

P.S. Enworld isn't into '1001 XYZs' threads the way WotC's site was, but Sister Maria should be in '1001 Hilarious Anecdotes'.

 

[MrHotter]

I would think it would be easy for the DM to only consider the vampire weakness to be to natural bodies of running water.

 

[dco]

I think he should be submerged, if not a sudden rain would kill him.

 

[GMMichael]

For myself, I take reference to what is traditional folklore regarding vampires. "Running water" in this sense refers to a body of water that is not at rest, i.e. a river or ocean. It references classic works like Dracula in which vampires cannot cross such bodies of water without aid. The point of this weakness isn't to kill a vampire, but keep it at bay.

And now I'm wondering why D&D bothers to include traditional vampire elements, when the protagonists in D&D games are rarely traditional. Bram Stoker's Dracula would have been no match for a D&D cleric.

That being said, OP, I think your control water move wouldn't do more damage to Strahd than a medium rain. Which is to say: none.