D&D 5E Curse of Strahd spoiler-filled general discussion

[Mercule]

But you do raise an interesting point. I wonder how many of us who truly, deeply dislike this change are also the ones who consider the Ravenloft novels an important part of "our" canon. The novel I, Strahd is easily one of the best of the line, and is also the source of a lot of the deeper looks into Strahd's background and personality. It heavily influences my view of the character, and indeed Barovia as a whole. I can quite easily see how those who haven't read it might have a different view of the importance of specific details in his history.

I've read I, Strahd, but I remember very few of the details, anymore. I haven't read any other Ravenloft novels.

I consider Tatyana important because ripping a countryside from its home plane is not something that happens gradually. There must be a catalyzing act that does that. It can't be "just one more step".

In murdering Sergei, Strahd willingly casts off the last of his humanity to get what he (thinks he) wants. The cursed part is because he didn't actually get what he wanted -- someone to see him as human and alive as Sergei. Instead, he threw away his only hope at that. While Strahd was a very bad man, he was "tricked" into a bad deal (poorly worded wish? deal with the devil?).

That doesn't mean you should feel sorry for Strahd. Even though I say "tricked", it wasn't like he didn't know killing his brother was wrong. He's also smart enough to do the math that killing a woman's beloved on her wedding day is pretty far down on the list of "ways to win a soulmate". He made his bed and now must lie in it.

Tatyana and Sergei are important because they represent what Strahd sought. Without them, he would have been just another harsh despot. It was his envy that set him down that path and it was his ruthless tactics that drove happiness away; he couldn't let go of the conqueror's approach.

 

[Mercule]

Was anyone opening with The Death House adventure?

Not sure, yet. We still have half of PotA left (barring an increasingly likely TPK), so I have a bit.

I like the Death House quest. I'm not sure how I'd work it in, though. There's nothing about Ravenloft that seems like it would be hospitable for 1st level foreigners to wander through, so I'm actually inclined to let them start at 3rd level, which makes Death House pointless.

Depending on how I decide to hook the PCs, though, I could see Strahd using the House as a standard/autopilot test/weed-out. It's only after they defeat the House that he actually takes any notice of them.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I've read I, Strahd, but I remember very few of the details, anymore. I haven't read any other Ravenloft novels.

I remember really liking I, Strahd - read P.N. Elrod's other vampire stuff if you liked it a lot - but my primary memory is how hacked off I got when she mentioned a character named Yssup Tew. I mean, seriously?

 

[Gadget]

I don't really agree. Without the One Ring, Gollum may have remained Smaegol and never killed his friend. We know this because Frodo was a perfectly good and moral person, and the Ring still corrupted him. Smaegol was a victim with no choice.

You and I read different stories. Frodo != pre-Ring Smeagol. Bilbo had the Ring for sixty years without murdering people and turning into a little monster. True, he was influenced by the Ring, and would have ultimately been corrupted had he kept it, but the fact remains that he fared much better than Smaegol. From what we are told, Smaegol was not a stand up guy to begin with, kind like a certain Barovian nobleman we all know.

Tatyana is not a corrupting influence that makes Strahd do anything. Strahd's already a dick who's jealous of his brother, and scarred from the horrors of war. Tatyana is simply the last straw that makes his jealousy rise up to the point where Strahd actively chooses to kill his brother.

Yes, I feel the original analogy is a bit off. Strahd's lust and desire to possess her is like the One Ring, not the woman herself. No one is is saying that Strahd was a great guy who would have been fine if only that fickle tart hadn't shown up on the scene. No one is blaming Tatalya, only saying that she was the catalyst for Strahd's final push over the edge. There must be some communication problem here, as I'm seeing several 'victim blaming' accusations being thrown around when I'm really not seeing any. Strahd was not a nice guy to begin with, no one denies this; the tragedy is the unique combination of events, circumstances, choices and desires that combined to push him from cold, bitter despot into dread lord vampire.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I remember really liking I, Strahd - read P.N. Elrod's other vampire stuff if you liked it a lot - but my primary memory is how hacked off I got when she mentioned a character named Yssup Tew. I mean, seriously?

That's in the sequel, I, Strahd: the War Against Azalin.

There are several deliberately bad or offensive names hidden in the last quarter of that book, though the one you mention is the worst and most obvious. Elrod was really angry over what she considered "editorial interference" that hadn't been present on the first book, and that she felt was trying to make her contradict character traits established in the first book. After several rounds of said "interference," she retaliated by including those names. (I do not know the specifics of said editorial notes, and am not taking sides on that matter.)

I really like her, as a writer and as a person, but it was a... less than professional or mature reaction. It was also a long time ago, though, and really shouldn't turn you off reading her other stuff.

 

[hawkeyefan]

You and I read different stories. Frodo != pre-Ring Smeagol. Bilbo had the Ring for sixty years without murdering people and turning into a little monster. True, he was influenced by the Ring, and would have ultimately been corrupted had he kept it, but the fact remains that he fared much better than Smaegol. From what we are told, Smaegol was not a stand up guy to begin with, kind like a certain Barovian nobleman we all know.

It's hard to say for sure. The Ring certainly seemed to exert more influence on its bearer when it wanted. Frodo's corruption is far quicker and more severe than Bilbo's. Is that because Sauron's strength is growing? Or is it because Frodo had to face Sauron's servants directly, and was wounded by them? Or did the Ring simply sense the objective of his mission and try to exert control to avoid destruction? Probably any...or all...of those factors can be sited as the reason.

Smaegol's fall was far quicker, and happened simply upon seeing the Ring. Was that because he was a worse person than Bilbo or Frodo? Maybe...we don't really know much about him, but he seemed a bit selfish. But would he have killed without the Ring? Very hard to say. I'd lean toward no, but that's pure conjecture. The Ring had been found and it immediately did what it needed to move on to where it wanted to be...and it used Smaegol to do it.

So I don't know if I'd attribute Bilbo's resistance to the Ring as anything more than the Ring being happy to remain where it was for a time.

Yes, I feel the original analogy is a bit off. Strahd's lust and desire to possess her is like the One Ring, not the woman herself. No one is is saying that Strahd was a great guy who would have been fine if only that fickle tart hadn't shown up on the scene. No one is blaming Tatalya, only saying that she was the catalyst for Strahd's final push over the edge. There must be some communication problem here, as I'm seeing several 'victim blaming' accusations being thrown around when I'm really not seeing any. Strahd was not a nice guy to begin with, no one denies this; the tragedy is the unique combination of events, circumstances, choices and desires that combined to push him from cold, bitter despot into dread lord vampire.

I am not blaming the victim in any way. And I don't think I said anyone else was. Except perhaps in the analogy of "Tatyana = One Ring". My stance that that analogy doesn't work is because it is essentially blaming Tatyana, and that's not correct.

The way I will treat the backstory in my game is that all of this happened over time. None of it was sudden. When it comes to the exact order of events, I'm not really concerned about them because I doubt my players will be writing down every detail and trying to place them in chronological order. No, they'll get the broad strokes, and that will be more than enough.

I plan on going over the Amber Temple stuff again in more detail to decide how I want to handle that. Honestly the vestige bit and all that is what I find more concerning than the specific order of events in Strahd's fall. I'll have more comments about that once I give it a more thorough read.

 

[Sunseeker]

Was anyone opening with The Death House adventure?

I'm trying to decide the best way to work the Death House into the mix. If they come up on the town of Barovia as written and investigate the sobbing and then check out the shops then they may not even stumble on the kids in front of the Death House. At this point they'll probably have a few things they want to do and may not want to bother with the kids.

I was thinking about having the party run into the kids while the town is still quiet so they investigate. If I do that I probably won't show them the art of the kids in the book. The creepy kids in the book would probably get magic missiled if that was the first people that the party sees when it goes into the town.

My group ran the Death House, I don't know if its just the way our DM ran things, but it felt highly tangential. It was basically a dungeon crawl with little lore and little relevance to the overall story of Ravenloft.

 

[Quickleaf]

Question: Does Strahd have male vampire spawn about Barovia? IIRC the original Ravenloft had only a couple of female vampire spawn at the castle? I'm thinking about adding a male vampire spawn spy, and wondering if it would go against theme?

My group ran the Death House, I don't know if its just the way our DM ran things, but it felt highly tangential. It was basically a dungeon crawl with little lore and little relevance to the overall story of Ravenloft.

While I really like Death House as a fun haunted house, I noticed the same thing; it's pretty tangential and can be fairly deadly. It actually inspired me to write my own...

I'm almost done with The Beast of Graensekov (1st-4th levels) which I'm going to put on DM's Guild as an alternative starting point for Curse of Strahd end of the week.

It involves breaking a curse on a noble family who are Strahd's vassals. So it's thematically similar.

There's lots of little connections to Curse of Strahd like the boyar (something like a military baron) having tried to cheat Strahd of taxes due to bandits and Strahd demanding the boyar's youngest son as a sacrifice...which the boyar tearfully complied with rather than face Strahd's wrath.

There's also direct connections like finding a "weapon" that could be used against Strahd but could also damn the PC's soul, and arranging a wedding (or crashing it!) for Ismark the Lesser, the burgomaster of Barovia's son.

 

[MechaPilot]

I've read I, Strahd, but I remember very few of the details, anymore. I haven't read any other Ravenloft novels.

I liked and would recommend the following Ravenloft Novels:

Scholar of Decay (this one is my favorite)
Baroness of Blood
Vampire of the Mists

I recall there being one more that i really liked, but I can't remember the name offhand. It wasn't the one about Azalin, although that one was decent.

 

[Bruce Vistani]

Not sure, yet. We still have half of PotA left (barring an increasingly likely TPK), so I have a bit.

I like the Death House quest. I'm not sure how I'd work it in, though. There's nothing about Ravenloft that seems like it would be hospitable for 1st level foreigners to wander through, so I'm actually inclined to let them start at 3rd level, which makes Death House pointless.

Depending on how I decide to hook the PCs, though, I could see Strahd using the House as a standard/autopilot test/weed-out. It's only after they defeat the House that he actually takes any notice of them.

Death House is going to be a location in Village of Borovia. I will not be using the mists to railroad players into exploring itas the module suggests, because that kind of DMing sucks harder than Strahd.

I think that aside from the railroading its a great little adventure.