MonsterEnvy
Legend
I don't care too much about the Strahd's half sister thing. Though I do think she should be ancient like Strahd having been around since the start.
D&D 5E Curse of Strahd spoiler-filled general discussion
- Thread starter Mouseferatu
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evilbob
Adventurer
Ha, love it! Totally using this. 10x better than the Strahd's sister silliness.That's an angle, anyway
For those who think she needs to have been around since the beginning (thus perpetuating the endless cycle of Ravenloft), she can be one of those people born with souls who is reborn each time and becomes the "Madam Eva" of that time period. Maybe the name is more of an honorific than even a real name: once a young woman demonstrates that she has the sight, the Vistani start calling her Madam Eva (after their greatest seer?) and eventually everyone forgets her real name anyway. (Maybe this is the 4th Madam Eva, and she's getting pretty up there in years.)
If you wanted to take it further, maybe the times when Madam Eva is dead (but before she's reborn) also tend to coincide with when Strahd has a "dormant" period (such that Van Richten has heard about) - in other words, she IS tied to Strahd in some mystical way, and he needs her to exist in order to rule... But so far no one has figured that out (least of all Madam Eva, who would probably rather kill herself than to let him rule for a time) - other than Strahd, which is why he's never killed her and allows her free reign (unknown to her, he's fairly aware of her meddling, but he knows her fear of him and what he could do to her people keeps her in check - plus she instills such wonderful false hope in his adversaries, making their defeat even sweeter). Maybe the original Madam Eva was part of the group that saved Strahd; she foresaw his potential for evil and cursed him so that if she were not around to watch him, he could inflict no harm. Originally intended to ensure he didn't "go bad" after her own death if he outlived her, it accidentally cursed her as well since as a vampire he can never die - thus she must always be reborn to continue to secretly meddle in his affairs and watch over him from a distance.
Tying it back into the other story from Jackdaw, she's known he will withdraw his favor from the Vistani and that's part of why she is secretly helping adventurers because she fears what that might mean for her people. However, maybe it's even ironic: she doesn't understand that this favor will only be withdrawn once he is gone forever, so she's really seeing the end of his curse - and the curse tying her people to him. (Like all fortunes she only sees part of the truth and the full truth is still hidden in the fog...)
evilbob
Adventurer
Quick oddity: the church in Barovia has an undercroft which has a "fortunes of Ravenloft" location - but there is no actual fortune for this location!
I can see why they might cut it - it's a place where there's a very good chance you will have already visited, so it wouldn't follow very well that you'd likely have searched that spot and just didn't see it. Then again, technically the game is so potentially non-linear that's true of nearly any place (you can even skip Madame Eva entirely and get a fortune somewhere else, much later - giving you a higher chance of having already gone through a place where something now exists). I think it was a potential spot from the 3.5 version too, so there's that. Maybe they just didn't like the idea of another "easy" location? (As opposed to the half-dozen crypts you might have to slog through.)
(Still, this book is WILDLY better edited than the 3.5 version - yeeeesh. That book was full of so many errors and mistakes there were huge lists of corrections going around - not to mention it had no ending.)
Personally I cut all the Amber Temple locations - physically removing the cards from the deck so they wouldn't get picked - and then just put one of them back and made a note that it was the undercroft. There are other ways to handle it as well if you want to include it.
I can see why they might cut it - it's a place where there's a very good chance you will have already visited, so it wouldn't follow very well that you'd likely have searched that spot and just didn't see it. Then again, technically the game is so potentially non-linear that's true of nearly any place (you can even skip Madame Eva entirely and get a fortune somewhere else, much later - giving you a higher chance of having already gone through a place where something now exists). I think it was a potential spot from the 3.5 version too, so there's that. Maybe they just didn't like the idea of another "easy" location? (As opposed to the half-dozen crypts you might have to slog through.)
(Still, this book is WILDLY better edited than the 3.5 version - yeeeesh. That book was full of so many errors and mistakes there were huge lists of corrections going around - not to mention it had no ending.)
Personally I cut all the Amber Temple locations - physically removing the cards from the deck so they wouldn't get picked - and then just put one of them back and made a note that it was the undercroft. There are other ways to handle it as well if you want to include it.
A slightly old thread - like Strahd it has its dormant times - but a good one. I noticed a lot of debate over when Strahd "went bad" and why. The old notion of him going bad because he was rejected by the one he loves has fallen from favour these days (despite it being a long-standing trope). I think in large part because some feel it implies fault on the part of the woman who rejects and that someone who reacts that way must already be bad and their behaviour simply confirms it. Others like the traditional and original story of Strahd snapping in one moment because of love. Ravenloft is, after all, a Gothic horror.
I don't think either quite works in such abstract detail to show what provoked a pact with "Death". My take on it is the traditional and original story, but I think when you truly step into the mind of Strahd, it can start to make sense. The following is the original story of Strahd (i.e. module and AD&D 2nd boxed set version) as I interpret it.
It wasn't love or its loss that turned Strahd to the night. It wasn't slow erosion of his morals through years of cruel warfare, either. It was something far more classic - betrayal. Strahd was the eldest, the heir and the lord to be. It was on his shoulders as a youth that duty fell the hardest. He learnt war young, but he did not love it. He fought many battles over many years to keep his family safe and his land in the hands of his people. His returns were fleeting, a year at most when he got to be with his young brother, his mother and to go amongst the villagers - The people for whom he spent long months trudging across battlefields, slaying their enemies with his own sword and watching his brothers in arms die. The wars took from him his youth, his gentleness, his friends. But on those occasions when he would return to his villages and his castle, or thought back to them from some windswept field, he knew why he fought. He fought for them. And he returned when he could. Village girls would throw flowers for him and one, not yet a woman but with a delicate face and sweet looks, smiled at him, told him she longed to see him return. The only tenderness in his life. He spared her brother from military service and he made sure that she and her parents had all that she needed before he left to repel the invaders once again, and he took with him a locket containing a small portrait of her face and carried it with him always.
The war was one to end all wars. He broke the enemy and in doing so nearly broke himself. When he returned, his hair was grey at the temples, his face worn like a cliff from too many winters in open fields, and his hands strong and calloused, arms hardened from sword and bow. The castle, long cherished in his memories, was decked with flowers and the smell of feasting drifted on smoke through the crisp autumn air. Here was the land he had guarded, here was the family he had sworn to protect. But the celebrations were not to welcome him home. Instead he found his younger brother at ease with petty nobles, drunk, his hair coiffed and dressed in finery as befit a groom. And when he went to find Tatyana, he found she was to be the bride. Then, he declared his love for her, his desire. But she turned from him, called him old, called him cold. Even the people seemed to shun him. They had grown used to his younger brother as their lord. They had forgotten their distant guardian who had no heir, and they fawned on the younger brother. Strahd found himself shunned, overlooked. A stranger and a soldier not fit for their lavish parties and not suited to the indulgent lifestyle they had grown used to and to which they had introduced the young Tatyana.
All this Strahd saw and knew that he had given his youth and the best parts of his life to protect these people and that in return they had forgotten him, whilst his own brother had taken the one dream he had left. Gone was the girl who prayed for his safe return, replaced by this woman who sought a life of idleness with his brother and looked on him like some aged uncle. Strahd looked at the hands she had refused to take, at the scars and the first creases of age and cursed them. He begged for the life and years that he had lost to be given back to him. He damned his brother for taking Tatyana from him and all those who lived because of him but would barely look at him. And at that instant, Death came to him and struck a bargain.
It wasn't love or its loss that turned Strahd to the night. It wasn't slow erosion of his morals through years of cruel warfare, either. It was something far more classic - betrayal. To be forgotten and discarded by those he and his brothers in arms had given up their lives for, and everything he longed for taken for themselves who had so much already only because of him. Betrayal. That, is something that can turn someone to darkness in a moment.
I don't think either quite works in such abstract detail to show what provoked a pact with "Death". My take on it is the traditional and original story, but I think when you truly step into the mind of Strahd, it can start to make sense. The following is the original story of Strahd (i.e. module and AD&D 2nd boxed set version) as I interpret it.
It wasn't love or its loss that turned Strahd to the night. It wasn't slow erosion of his morals through years of cruel warfare, either. It was something far more classic - betrayal. Strahd was the eldest, the heir and the lord to be. It was on his shoulders as a youth that duty fell the hardest. He learnt war young, but he did not love it. He fought many battles over many years to keep his family safe and his land in the hands of his people. His returns were fleeting, a year at most when he got to be with his young brother, his mother and to go amongst the villagers - The people for whom he spent long months trudging across battlefields, slaying their enemies with his own sword and watching his brothers in arms die. The wars took from him his youth, his gentleness, his friends. But on those occasions when he would return to his villages and his castle, or thought back to them from some windswept field, he knew why he fought. He fought for them. And he returned when he could. Village girls would throw flowers for him and one, not yet a woman but with a delicate face and sweet looks, smiled at him, told him she longed to see him return. The only tenderness in his life. He spared her brother from military service and he made sure that she and her parents had all that she needed before he left to repel the invaders once again, and he took with him a locket containing a small portrait of her face and carried it with him always.
The war was one to end all wars. He broke the enemy and in doing so nearly broke himself. When he returned, his hair was grey at the temples, his face worn like a cliff from too many winters in open fields, and his hands strong and calloused, arms hardened from sword and bow. The castle, long cherished in his memories, was decked with flowers and the smell of feasting drifted on smoke through the crisp autumn air. Here was the land he had guarded, here was the family he had sworn to protect. But the celebrations were not to welcome him home. Instead he found his younger brother at ease with petty nobles, drunk, his hair coiffed and dressed in finery as befit a groom. And when he went to find Tatyana, he found she was to be the bride. Then, he declared his love for her, his desire. But she turned from him, called him old, called him cold. Even the people seemed to shun him. They had grown used to his younger brother as their lord. They had forgotten their distant guardian who had no heir, and they fawned on the younger brother. Strahd found himself shunned, overlooked. A stranger and a soldier not fit for their lavish parties and not suited to the indulgent lifestyle they had grown used to and to which they had introduced the young Tatyana.
All this Strahd saw and knew that he had given his youth and the best parts of his life to protect these people and that in return they had forgotten him, whilst his own brother had taken the one dream he had left. Gone was the girl who prayed for his safe return, replaced by this woman who sought a life of idleness with his brother and looked on him like some aged uncle. Strahd looked at the hands she had refused to take, at the scars and the first creases of age and cursed them. He begged for the life and years that he had lost to be given back to him. He damned his brother for taking Tatyana from him and all those who lived because of him but would barely look at him. And at that instant, Death came to him and struck a bargain.
It wasn't love or its loss that turned Strahd to the night. It wasn't slow erosion of his morals through years of cruel warfare, either. It was something far more classic - betrayal. To be forgotten and discarded by those he and his brothers in arms had given up their lives for, and everything he longed for taken for themselves who had so much already only because of him. Betrayal. That, is something that can turn someone to darkness in a moment.
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Daern
Explorer
Last session my players broke into the dungeons of the castle during the Baron's wedding night. They raided the tombs, slew a bride or two and the fire horse. Finally, they attracted the ire of the lord himself. As bats gathered, the group fled out the windows of the royal tomb. The session ended at the foot of the "Pillar of Ravenloft, 1000 feet below the castle. Bats have gathered, wolves are howling. What would Strahd do?
Strahd is certainly aware of them. He knows they have the Sunsword, but doesn't know they have the Tome. I have made it clear that the wedding is meant to occur at midnight, which hasn't happened, but the group does not seem too concerned about rescuing Ireena (I think they consider her lost already). The ravens are grateful allies who haven't done much yet. Perhaps they arrive to chase away the bats. But what does Strahd do?
Strahd is certainly aware of them. He knows they have the Sunsword, but doesn't know they have the Tome. I have made it clear that the wedding is meant to occur at midnight, which hasn't happened, but the group does not seem too concerned about rescuing Ireena (I think they consider her lost already). The ravens are grateful allies who haven't done much yet. Perhaps they arrive to chase away the bats. But what does Strahd do?
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
The story I'm going with: Madam Eva is working for Strahd. Strahd's original desire when pulling the characters into Barovia was to seek an heir - he wants to be free of his curse, too, at least originally. Eva is the one working to free him from his curse, to slay him, and help him leave Barovia. She pushes the party to these items because she WANTS them to accept Strahd's mantle.
There's a strong vein in my campaign about the heir (Arabelle was the ally, and the blood spear speaks of ruling the land again), and a bit about how the Vistani work for Strahd (the Vallaki camp is basically reporting all of their activities back to him). Eva works for him, too, in her own way.
evilbob
Adventurer
Pffewf, that's a tough one. It fits the narrative just as well, but it leaves even fewer allies for the party, and no one with any real power who opposes Strahd in the land. I don't think I will personally use that one, just because it could start to feel too hopeless: it turns up the "everyone is out to get you" vibe to the point that the party might just stop trusting anyone. (I've been in those kinds of games.)
This narrative structure I would reject completely. It mixes excuses for Strahd's behavior with victim-blaming and comes up with a particularly nasty mix, especially as the entire game is more or less a metaphor for spousal abuse. This makes Strahd way too sympathetic and far less responsible for his actions, which is... way too much like every other story about an evil vampire, ever. It's beyond trope; it's stereotype. Strahd didn't conquer those lands for the people, or to keep anyone safe: he did it because he loves to conquer people, consolidate his power, and he's good at it. It's all about power and glory, which makes his inability to gain the attention of a woman even more frustrating to him: he can't conquer her (thanks to her pesky free will and his lack of any warmth or reason for her to like him) which infuriates him, especially as he is clearly someone used to bending everything in his path to his will. He doesn't damn his brother because he's jealous, or because other people like him: he damns him because he is an obstacle in his path to the object he desires to possess, just like anything else. Strahd doesn't love Tatyana; he wants to conquer and lord over her - which is much easier as a vampire, since you can remove someone's free will and force your way/vision/self onto them. That's what he loves about being a vampire: now he can also conquer people's souls as well as their lands and bodies.
The idea that he's upset because the villagers he worked so hard to save don't have the proper thanks for him just makes me throw up in my mouth a little.
Which isn't me saying it's a bad idea! It's just me saying I'd never use it. I feel like it goes entirely against the flow of the story.
Savage Wombat
Hero
So... my party decided to go dig up clay golems at the ruins of VR's Tower to farm EXP to get to 8th level.
One crit and one other hit, and two failed saves, later - and the paladin is permanently down 38 HP until he gets a Greater Restoration. Which basically does not exist in Ravenloft as written.
One crit and one other hit, and two failed saves, later - and the paladin is permanently down 38 HP until he gets a Greater Restoration. Which basically does not exist in Ravenloft as written.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Mouseferatu
Hero
This. I personally have a problem with "grinding" in any RPG or campaign, but doing it in Ravenloft is just begging for punishment.
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