Customizable Skill Lists

[Thondor]

I like this revision. Seems a little simpler to me. The numbers certainly don't trouble me except for what you indicated at the end.

I give the Wizard a slight boost here due to the quanitity of Knowledge skills and the fact that he should be able to learn near all of them. A high Int (18+) character in say, fighter, does run the risk of having more skill points than class skills but they'll just have to cope (not that I have ever seen anything like that happen).

I would propose just adding your Intelligence bonus to the number of mental skills you can have. That might be slightly too much, though. Perhaps just half your intelligence bonus. I have ran a fighter with a 16 intelligence and I'd find this restriction a little galling (only 2 mental stats).

I'm personaly under the impression that skills as a whole need a lot of reworking. I'm still trying to figure out the details.

Forgot something- Are you still handling multi-classing the same way? Your original method seemed a little to liberal to me - but I guess the PHB just lets you gain all the new class skills for free. Possible suggestion - multi-classing gains the difference in skills + 2, with a minimum of an extra 2. So a fighter multi-classing into a Rogue would have a total of 11/11. A rogue multiclassing into a fighter would only gain a 11/11 - with two new skills, one mental one physical.
Or you could just add the number of skill points per level the new class would have.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I like this revision. Seems a little simpler to me. The numbers certainly don't trouble me except for what you indicated at the end.


I would propose just adding your Intelligence bonus to the number of mental skills you can have. That might be slightly too much, though. Perhaps just half your intelligence bonus. I have ran a fighter with a 16 intelligence and I'd find this restriction a little galling (only 2 mental stats).

I'm personaly under the impression that skills as a whole need a lot of reworking. I'm still trying to figure out the details.

I think the system as it is (d20+ bonuses) is solid but the stingyness of the RAW in giving out skill points and the restrictive nature of the class skill lists really hurts the system. I have tried a couple of methods from combining certain skills together (ie Open Locks and DIsable Device into just Disable Device, Move Silently and Hide into Stealth etc) to adding extra skill points (which i will always keep now) to a combination of those two plus eliminating some skills entirely. It is one area of the game that I feel you can play with quite a bit and not really throw the system out of whack. Some 'safeguards' are needed on things like Use MAgic Device but overall it is the most customizable part of 3E.

I like the 1/2 Int bonus to extra mental skills. That gives more incentive (to me) for players to pump up their Int scores. WOuld a similar bonus be out of line for character with high Str/Dex/Con? Or would it be better for the player to choose which stat they want as their 'bonus class skill' stat? Should there be a restriction on which skills they can put the bonus into? Ooooo lots to think about! My players are going to think I am insane with the changes I've already made to the house rule - and we haven't even tried it out yet!

Forgot something- Are you still handling multi-classing the same way? Your original method seemed a little to liberal to me - but I guess the PHB just lets you gain all the new class skills for free. Possible suggestion - multi-classing gains the difference in skills + 2, with a minimum of an extra 2. So a fighter multi-classing into a Rogue would have a total of 11/11. A rogue multiclassing into a fighter would only gain a 11/11 - with two new skills, one mental one physical.
Or you could just add the number of skill points per level the new class would have.

I wasn't too worried about the multi-classing thing. I would rather the player choose new skills rather than keep up the same ones (that should be one of the big reasons to multi-class - access to more skills) but even if they simply chose the same skills over and over I don't think it would cause much of a balance issue. The RAW allow every class skill with each new class so i though a (small) restriction wouldn't be too out of place. I think the system you state might be too far the other way. And it skews the 'ratio' aspect I was trying to instill in the class skill choices. The '-1 class skill' should come off the higher number (player's choice when they get equal number of mental & physical) the -2 is one off of each. Maybe that is a little liberal. I would see doubling it to -2/-4 though.

btw thanks to all who are contributing here. It helps to get some extra insight on this stuff.

 

[Thondor]

I like the 1/2 Int bonus to extra mental skills. That gives more incentive (to me) for players to pump up their Int scores. WOuld a similar bonus be out of line for character with high Str/Dex/Con? Or would it be better for the player to choose which stat they want as their 'bonus class skill' stat? Should there be a restriction on which skills they can put the bonus into? Ooooo lots to think about! My players are going to think I am insane with the changes I've already made to the house rule - and we haven't even tried it out yet!

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Call me crazy but I'd make the physical bonus skills based on wisdom. Wisdom is alrady connected to how you physicaly are able to perceive the world around you (spot, listen) it makes sense that this ability reflects how well you learn physicaly. Wisdom is also tied to your Will, one of the most important things to physical learning - "I will push myself to the limit and get the most from this experience."
Makes sense to me . . . Not sure I explained it very well though.

 

[DerHauptman]

Cool

1. Tried something like this once in a game. (It worked fine - just fine...in fact I liked it so much its my house rule.)

2. I basically in haste said everyone gets one Knowledge skill, and one craft or profession skill (plus the point per level to go with it) per level automatically and +2 extra skill points per level for whatever they wanted with some stipulations.

a. I (becasue I like down time and aging characters) wanted the players to all have a non-combat profession or craft for income.​

b. I think that everyone knows at least one thing well. (In retrospect I should have given a bonus knowledge skill and the points per level to go with it to those with an INT bonus at the ratio of; 1 skill per every +2 of bonus.)​

c. Finally the extra 2 pts is because the 2 skill pts per level classes are pathetic. The drown or fall decision seems silly for someone who is fairly athletic. (I added the 2 pts to everyone so I didn't have to come up with some balancing stuff.)​

Discussion​

Everyone got 2 extra points - case closed; fair and balanced in a few strokes of the keyboard.

Physical classes (fighter types) had to put the extra 2 pts into physical skills.

Mental classes (spellcasters) had to put thier 2 pts into mental skills.

The classes in between (rouges, monks, bards) got to put thier 2 pts into either area.

I like your suggestion very much; like I said it worked great in my game. You are giving a lot of skills though but it will be balanced casue everyone gets them in proportion to what they currently have. I say go for it!

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Call me crazy but I'd make the physical bonus skills based on wisdom. Wisdom is alrady connected to how you physicaly are able to perceive the world around you (spot, listen) it makes sense that this ability reflects how well you learn physicaly. Wisdom is also tied to your Will, one of the most important things to physical learning - "I will push myself to the limit and get the most from this experience."
Makes sense to me . . . Not sure I explained it very well though.

I think the players (at least in my group) may think that is a little unfair though. I am puttin gthease rules in after they have already built their characters and am retofitting the skill rule changes (they are only 2nd level however). Everyone is pretty happy with their characters (except the RAW skill thing) so i wouldn't want to put changes in that affect their ability scores too much. I am thinking I'll actually leave these bonus points out as everyone seems to feel (at least those who made it to last weeks game) that they have plenty of class skills now.

Discussion


Everyone got 2 extra points - case closed; fair and balanced in a few strokes of the keyboard.

Physical classes (fighter types) had to put the extra 2 pts into physical skills.

Mental classes (spellcasters) had to put thier 2 pts into mental skills.

The classes in between (rouges, monks, bards) got to put thier 2 pts into either area.

I like your suggestion very much; like I said it worked great in my game. You are giving a lot of skills though but it will be balanced casue everyone gets them in proportion to what they currently have. I say go for it!

I thought about this method too, in fact. My main goal, however, was to allow more customization for every class but still maintain the overall class skill 'flavour' (ie a Fighter would have more physical skills than mental).I introduced these rule changes at the last game and the players seemed to take to them very well. The Druid player had to make some tough choices about his mental skills (he wanted all of them!) but managed to settle on a good selection.

 

[Pssthpok]

Are there 6 truly "physical" skills? Where do Listen and Spot sit? They are physical (eyes and ears) but are governed by a mental score...

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Are there 6 truly "physical" skills? Where do Listen and Spot sit? They are physical (eyes and ears) but are governed by a mental score...

I just go by what the skill has as a ability modifier.