Romotre:
DM won't let you multi-class? Taking a Ranger level would give you the two weapon stuff, Rogue levels would give the sneak attack and bluff, and maybe some fighter levels for some feats. i see no reason to mix the classes together without anything new. that's why you can multi-class.
Multi-classing gets me abilities that I'm not interested in. Like Uncanny Evasion, Ranger spell-casting and Favored enemy. That's no solution at all, as it doesn't build my concept very well.
Don21584:
Well, the problem I see is, your "balance," is just getting rid of things you don't want. You're just picking and choosing what you like of the Ranger and adding in something else you like from the Rogue. It's like saying you're customizing a fighter, but getting rid of his bonus feats for Barbarian Rage and Monk Unarmored Attack Bonus.
Of course that's what I'm doing. I said as much in my first post here. Of course, the spell-list, and the favored enemy are important aspects of the ranger that contribute to his balance as a character class. By abandoning them, I
should be able to swap out another ability that fits my concept better. The question, which you haven't even addressed, is the loss of spells, and possibly of favored enemy, a fair trade-off for that loss?
kenjib:
I just posted a very similar concept:
http://www.enworld.org/messageboard...=&threadid=4669
The sneak attack is watered down (I call it surprise attack). I also removed medium armor proficiency and two weapon fighting, so my version is a bit lower powered than your idea is.
Sneak attack seems like it would be a pretty powerful ability if you retain the fighter BaB progression but I haven't playtested this combo so I can't say for sure. That's why I watered down sneak attack and removed a little more than you are suggesting to compensate.
I agree with Romotre though that multiclassing might serve you best though. I created the class modification because I want to use it for a low magic setting so rangers as per the PHB are out of the picture.
I'll check out your concept. I, like you, want to keep the concept low-magic: not because the setting is going to be low magic (going to be Iron Kingdoms, as I understand it from the DM) but because my concept is low magic and the spells are not part of it. Sneak attack may be extraordinarily powerful with a higher BAB: I don't know. I've played mid-level rogues with
decent BAB and haven't found that sneak attack is that incredible, so maybe I'm not as cautious as many of you here on the thread of the supposed abuses that may entail.
I did also look at the Scoundrel and Wanderer classes from Star Wars and Wheel of Time respectively. Both of them have a much later and slower sneak attack progression, not starting until 5th level and only ever getting as high as +4d6. However, they have a number of other class abilities to balance them out. For that matter, the rogue has a number of other class abilities which I don't think fit my concept that well either, so I think some allowances need to be made for that as well. I did suggest a slower sneak attack bonus progression, but I still think that somewhere between the rogues +10d6 and the Wanderer/Scoundrel's +4d6 is fair given the other abilities I'm giving up. I still think giving up the spell-casting alone is fairly significant to lowering the power-level of the Ranger (which is generally considered a relatively weak class anyway) and merits an ability that is actually useful. I'm lucky in that it also fits my concept to have sneak attack of some form.
s4rdfish:
In AEG's Rokugan setting Rangers lose access to spells but gain a Fighter-list feat wehenver they'd gain access to a new spell level. I think this exchange is balanced and still maintains the class distinction. Not sure about Sneak Attack though. Could gain a 1d6 at the same levels listed above (obviously instead of the feat). If you want access to Bluff, without multi-classing, try this feat (also from Rokugan)
Versitile [General]
Benefit: Select two cross-class skills. These skills are always considered in class skills for you.
Special: This feat may be selected multiple times. Each time, it applies to different skills.
Thanks, that might be an option. I don't certainly don't recall that from
Oriental Adventures though. Is that in the Rokugan campaign setting?
Mustrum_Ridcully:
Or take "Cosmopolitian" of the Forgotten Realms Setting: Choose one Skill, this is always considered Class Skill for you. I am not sure if it even gives you a +1 bonus, I don`t have the Source Books.
Thanks, that might be an option. I don't own FRCS so I didn't know about that feat.
Plane Sailing:
Another option you could consider:
Duelist prestige class. (Dragon mag, sword & fist). This would seem to fit in very well with your concept, and to be honest I would think that fighter would be better than ranger as the base for the character - since you are not particularly interested in the spells, the tracking, the favoured enemy and you don't mention the ranger skill list as being particularly interesting. It means that you don't get good at TWF until you reach 2nd level, but the additional feats you gain will vastly help with your fighting style, and by the time you reach the level when you could make duelist you will have overtaken the limited initial benefit of the ranger TWF.
Have you considered how your proposed modifications match up to the example of the modified fighter with some rogue abilities in the PHB and the example of the modified ranger with some paladin abilities in the DMG?
As it stands, it almost sounds like the sole attraction of the ranger is cheap TWF and obvious abilities to swap out for others. I'm sure that is not the case, but if I were your DM I'd look for evidence that you were looking for a particular concept first as the foundation for the character - and it sounds more like fighter to me at the moment.
Actually, we're starting at 2nd level, so I could get the same feats I need from a fighter (I actually already rolled one up, but I'm still not happy with the idea, as it gives me proficiencies that I don't need, like armor and such instead of some others that I think makes quite a bit of sense, such as the Ranger skill list and some outdoorsy flavor.) I have not looked at the modified classes in the PHB -- in fact, I had completely forgotten they existed. Is that at the end of the classes chapter?
Oh, and the duelist prestige class probably won't do much for me. If I recall, that is designed for fighters that use finesse-able weapons. As I want to be a two-bladed sword duelist, it won't help me at all with my weapon of choice.
