Custserv@wizards

jgsugden,

You're comparing an $18,000 a year customer service rep for a niche product in a subsidiary of a large toy company to a $100-$200k a year lawyer who is getting paid for his time doing research and preparing legal documents.

You want the company to set up a database of questions and answers along with an internal interface to easily query that database just so people can have the "correct" answer for a game.

How long have you played 3.0 and 3.5? How long have you frequented ENWorld? Now think about some kid coming to work for WotC who has played D&D a few times, has read the books once or twice, and then is sat down in front of a computer and expected to field emails from gamers wanting answers on (what amounts to them as) esoteric points of the game. You are probably a far greater expert than he on how to adjucate the game or make changes.

I realize this is a rant, but what you are expecting is not going to happen. However, barring getting the "OFFICAL STAMP OF APPROVAL, GOD'S HONEST TRUTH SAGE ADVICE RULING" (tm) from WotC, you have probably the best community on the planet for figuring out how to tweak a spell to get it to work properly right here. Hell, you'll get three or four different viewpoints on how to make something "not broken". You just have to pick one that you like from someone whose opinion you respect.
 
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The Bad Elf's solution to WoTC's customer service woes:

1) Poll the local gaming groups to find the three worst D20 rules lawyers.
2) Hire them. Pay 'em on the same level as, say, the better local convenience stores - but throw in free product too. And cokes and snacks.
3) Put 'em on the phones. They'll love it - getting paid to sit around talking about D&D all day, AND getting free stuff! No one knows this stuff better than rules lawyers...

WOTC - if you actually do this, please think of me as their agent; I'll take my cut in miniatures. :D
 

Did you ever consider the possibility that all these stupid questions here who are asked every two days are posted by some custserv dudes who do exactly that without giving us the free stuff :D?
 

A few responses:

*****

The people doing the document review in most large legal cases tend to be temps with a legal background - usually law students that just graduated and are awaiting bar results before finding a permanent position. They do not make obscene amounts of money. More than $18,000 per year or $9.00 per hour? Yes. More than $50,000 per year or $25.00 per hour? Usually not.

Those JDs (law graduates) know a heck of a lot about the law, but they are not trained in handling massive rule applications. That is something you learn on the job. There is a huge difference between being able to handle the laws as a lawyer and applying the rules of evidence in a specific setting in regards to a large document production.

These law graduates generally are bright people, but they rarely have any expertise in this aspect of rule management. This is not an area of emphasis in many, if any, law schools. In other words, beyond being slightly brighter than your average joe, these guys are probably not more qualified *in this area of expertise* than a quality junior college student. If that JC student has specialized training in this type of activity, they may be more proficient.

*****

As for the hiring practices of Wotc: If the people answering questions have only minimal game playing experience and have only read through the books a few times before they sit down to answer questions, WotC needs to fire the person responsible for hiring these people. There are better candidates out there.

Even if the people hired are that poorly selected, they should develope an expertise in the field rather quickly *if* there is some organization. Simply using key word sifting to send particular topics to particular people would reduce the number of times that different agents give different answers on the same topic.

*****

Rule 0 is fine tool, but it can only be used like a knife, not a club.

I've played in many games over nearly 3 decades with *hundreds* of players. MOST of them tend to be unhappy when a DM applies Rule 0 and makes a change that doesn't favor their character. A select (blessed) few will take any rule changes in stride, but most players will point to a book and scream bloody murder if you make a ruling against the holy books.

When players get advice from custserv, the sage or a select few board savants, they give that advice the same treatment as the books. They feel that it is gospel. If that ruling favors their characters, either in 'power' or in terms of character concept, they resent it being overruled.

A DM can always apply Rule 0 to fix a problem. Unfortunately, applying Rule 0 is often a solution that leads to anger, frustration and resentment. This is not always the case, but for issues that arise often, it is the norm in most groups.

In any game as complex as D&D it is an unfortunate necessity. It should, however, be a last resort, not a common technique. We buy the rules to have rules. We don't buy the rules to make them up ourselves.

*****

I appreciate the problems that custserv faces. It is not funded well. It probably has pretty quick turnover with most custserv agents leaving after a short period. During their time answering questions, those agents have to deal with irate and rude customers. Like any customer service situation, it is not a fun job most of the time.

There are many customer service jobs out there. Many of them face the same problems. Many of them do a far better job because of proper organization.

*****

As for managing a database capable of handling the written core rules, the questions that custserv answers, the modules, etc ... I fully admit this is not an area of expertise for me. I have, however, seen very small companies handle much larger databases on issues that are more complex. Do I know how? No. Does it tell me that it can be done? Yes.

*****

I'm not looking for perfection. I don't care about the trivia of the game. I only care about the big issues. The ones that come up over ... and over ... and over ... and over ... The issues that many of us get tired of seeing pop up on the message boards. With minimal organization, these major issues could be grabbed by custserv agents, discussed fully amongst themselves (and designers when needed) and given a final answer that has the full weight and authority of WotC behind it. That answer could be saved and reused every time that question came up.

A key example: Polymorph. How many polymorph questions pop up on the boards? Do hit points change with a change in constitution? What natural attacks can a polymorpher make in a certain form? Do polymorphers gain the traits of the type adopted? How do you mix natural and manufactured weapons? Are druids limited by the 15 HD cap on polymorph effects? What magic items blend in when you polymorph into certain forms? Does enlarge person end if you polymorph into another type of creature? Can a polymorphed creature poison another creature, or does the poison revert to something other than poison once it leaves the polymorpher? (Note: please don't argue these issues here ... there are other threads that cover all of these issues ... and none of these issues have universally accepted answers).

Some of those questions are major issues that come up almost every time polymorph effects go into play. Polymoprh effects represent a very popular spell for wizards and sorcerers as well as a core ability of the druid class. They come up a lot. They need consistent answers.

Some of those issues only arise on a rare occassion. Do I expect answers for them? No. It would be nice to have clear answers for them, but the issue of whether a polymorphed creature can poison something else is so rare that a central answer is not truly needed.

I expect the major issues to be answered. I don't expect perfection. I just expect the major issues to be covered.

*****

I'm glad I type fast ... :)
 

jgsugden said:
As for the hiring practices of Wotc: If the people answering questions have only minimal game playing experience and have only read through the books a few times before they sit down to answer questions, WotC needs to fire the person responsible for hiring these people. There are better candidates out there.

The one thing I don't think you've addressed here is the issue that custserv doesn't just deal with D&D: it's the same address for all things WOTC, including Magic, Pokemon, Star Wars, d20 Modern, etc., etc. How many people do you think have deep game experience in all these systems, and are willing to work for less than $20k a year?
 

dcollins said:
The one thing I don't think you've addressed here is the issue that custserv doesn't just deal with D&D: it's the same address for all things WOTC, including Magic, Pokemon, Star Wars, d20 Modern, etc., etc. How many people do you think have deep game experience in all these systems, and are willing to work for less than $20k a year?
I didn't address it directly, but I hit on the appropriate analysis: A cost benefit analysis. Major issues need to be addressed, minor issues can slip by if needed.

A quick analysis can reveal what the balance for each product regarding the revenue (or profits) to the company for a given product and the number of players using that product. Any product that scores high on both categories needs more attention and greater detail. Any product that scores lower in the two categories needs less attention to detail.

I also mentioned specialization in passing: A guru for each major subject. Does every person on custserv need to know all the rules for Star Wars? No. Only a select few who get all the questions on Star Wars sent their way.

This is *basic* economic theory. It is something that most college graduates (via a single economics, business or political science class) should have a handle upon. If the people running custserv are not even doing this minimal level of organization, I'm moving myself from the disappointed category into the disgusted category. Heck, anyone that had a high scholl economics class should understand the benefits of specialization.

Custserv needs to deal with all WotC products. Each custserv agent should not be doing so. That is a ridiculously inefficient method.

I don't know the numbers of employees working on custserv aspects, but there are enough for specialization to be used. I've seen more than a few custserv names float by in answers to my questions or posted on the boards.

And if these guys truly can't handle the ideas I've tossed out: Fire three of them and bring in one guy at $50,000 that is an expert in these areas. One guy with authority and knowledge could drastically improve the situation. He'd at least be able to get some consistency going for custserv. Heck, bring in a quality consultant for *one week* and I bet you'd see enough improvement to get better results ... probably good enough to reduce the number of employees.

Off the top of my head:

Implementing automatic response systems tied to key words could provide quick answers to the obvious questions. When a question is sent to custserv that features key words, an automated repsonse could be sent back that has FAQs on the issue tied to those key words. If that automated response answers the questions, the person asking the question clicks on a link on the email and his question is removed from the queue at custserv. A week of work up front to set this up could save months of work down the road.

A searchable message board that contains all the custserv answers to questions would reduce the need to ask a lot of them, though it might create an extra influx of questions raised by those answers ... but I count that as a plus. It would lead to greater consistency and accuracy. Hammer the questions out fully once and you'll reduce the number of questions in the future.

These might be good ideas. Maybe there is some aspect that I am not seeing that makes these bad ideas. Regardless, there is a problem and good ideas need to be found to solve them. I can't imagine that there is nothing reasonable left to do to improve the situation.
 

jgsugden said:
I've been on a quest to get the polymorph/wildshape rules down correctly, as intended by the developers.
Been there, done that.

I don't have much to add beyond "I agree with everything you said".

I've had my own little polymorph obsession since early 2001, and over the years I've seen the same questions asked over and over and over. Despite several attempts by WotC to fix/clarify the spell (there are 7 or 8 different 3.0 versions of the spell) they have never bothered to make a serious effort of it. 3.5 polymorph (and its "relatives") fared no better, ignoring many well known problems from 3.0 and adding plenty of new ones.

What has this got to do with custserv? I can put up with (reluctantly) the lack of quality control. I can put up with (very reluctantly) the unnecessary changes in the new edition. But the lack of official support gets to me. It tells me that:

1. They don't care about correcting their mistakes.
2. They don't care about the quality of their future products.

(I no longer play DnD.)
 

jgsugden said:
This is *basic* economic theory. It is something that most college graduates (via a single economics, business or political science class) should have a handle upon...

As I said above, I actually can't see any major benefit to WOTC doing email support in the first place. I could easily imagine an economic analysis being done it and resulting in a decision to just scrap the whole custserv department.

jgsugden said:
I don't know the numbers of employees working on custserv aspects, but there are enough for specialization to be used. I've seen more than a few custserv names float by in answers to my questions or posted on the boards.

Actually, I suspect otherwise. I bet there's fewer people working at custserv than WOTC has product lines. You could easily see a number of names over time, due to turnover, but not actually have staff numbering as many as product lines. Even if you did, I bet that the card games overwhelm D&D questions, and if staffing was made in an pro-rated fashion that would mean terminating the D&D support.
 

The simplest thing that WOTC can do with their support lines is to

1) get the questions from the user
2) get a final answer before replying quickly (as in the HyperSmurf example)
3) a bit of back and forth to finalise the answer clarification
4) enter the answer into a database of answers, tagged with keywords (e.g. polymorph, wildshape)
5) have this database accessible on the web via their website or what have you (even a downloadable/updatable program for off-line use)
6) then anyone who has a question checks there first then contacts customer service on things that haven't been rehashed.

As a developer who has done this kind of thing for support departments many times over, I know it isn't hard, I know the trick is in the definition of the question/key words, and I know it can be done relatively easily.
 

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