D&D “Essentials” as a product line = making it less daunting to get into the game?

[Aurumvorax]

What I don't understand about Essentials as a product line is that it feels incomplete. I'm left with no rituals, 5 pages worth of equipment, and 150 pages worth of information that's scrunched down into a smaller book to appear like it has more content. If a new player wanted to get anything out of Essentials they would have to fork over money for the Adventurer's Vault to fill that massive gap of having zero treasure which goes against Essentials as a new product line and the marketing tag line of it being ESSENTIAL.

 

[Maggan]

It is indeed unfortunate that all the main paroducts were not available at once.

It worked for AD&D back in them days, so I think it might work for WotC this time around as well.

They're not betting that the majority of sales happen now and never forever more. They're betting that it will be a steady seller for quite some time, and a one month more or less is not a big thing when looking at the big picture.

/M

 

[Hussar]

/snip

The distinction between a preview/demo and a core game which is supplemented by expansions is pretty obvious and clear-cut. Let's take a couple examples:

(1) Arkham Horror. You buy the core game. When you go to buy Dunwich Horror or King in Yellow, you don't simply discard Arkham Horror. Instead, those additional products contain expansions of the original ruleset which you use in conjunction with the original product. (Nor could you buy an expansion and simply skip buying Arkham Horror.)

This is clearly an expansion of the game, not a preview or a demo.

(2) Batman: Arkham Asylum. I download the demo to my PS3 and I play it until it's done. I decide I like the game based on the demo and I go out and buy the game. When I buy the full game, I can delete the demo off my PS3's hard drive. I don't need it to play the full version of the game.

Computer game demos are clearly previews. The full version of a computer game is not an expansion or supplement to the demo.

The distinction is pretty clear-cut: The Mentzer Basic Set followed scenario #1. The 4E Starter Set follows scenario #2.

AFAICT, no game outside of the roleplaying industry has ever tried to sell the demo the way that TSR & WotC have sold their pay-to-preview Basic/Starter games since 1991.

It's certainly possible that this "revolutionary" method has just taken 20 years to mature and is now primed to become a huge success. But I suspect it's more likely that "sell 'em the demo" is just a fundamentally flawed marketing strategy.

You failed to answer my question, so, no, it hasn't been explained to me.

What did the Mentzer Basic set, which I happen to actually have sitting in front of me right now, have that the 4e Starter Set does not?

Both are level 1-3. Both have chargen rules. Both have very, very limited replay value.

I guess the biggest difference is that if you skip the Starter set and go straight into Essentials, you still get the basic information. If I skip the Mentzer Basic boxed set and go to the Expert rules, all I've got to go on is a single page of information in the Expert rules that summarizes some of the information in the Basic rule book.

Granted, I don't get any of the monsters or anything like that. So, I actually am forced to buy the Basic box first and then the next box after that.

So, how exactly is this different this time around? Why is the 4e Starter set a pay to preview set and Mentzer Basic isn't?

 

[Dice4Hire]

What I don't understand about Essentials as a product line is that it feels incomplete. I'm left with no rituals, 5 pages worth of equipment, and 150 pages worth of information that's scrunched down into a smaller book to appear like it has more content. If a new player wanted to get anything out of Essentials they would have to fork over money for the Adventurer's Vault to fill that massive gap of having zero treasure which goes against Essentials as a new product line and the marketing tag line of it being ESSENTIAL.

Well, right now, how can you even play essentials without using older straight 4E stuff? A bare bare handful of magic items, very few monsters, and that is about it.

Classes are good, as are feats.

I know every company has always done this, but it still does not mean it is the best way to do it.

 

[Maggan]

Both are level 1-3. Both have chargen rules. Both have very, very limited replay value.

I agree with your posts quite a bit, but the D&D Essentials Starter Set has info for levels 1-2, I believe.

 

[Windjammer]

I agree with your posts quite a bit, but the D&D Essentials Starter Set has info for levels 1-2, I believe.

Yes, and I think it's quite a stretch of language to say that the 2010 starter box contains rules for character generation in the sense that the old Red Box did.

1983: Wanna generate abilities? Here's how you roll the dice for that!
2010: You are a human fighter. Your strength is 18.

1983: Here's a list of equipment. Pick anything you want - and can afford!
2010: You can either have a greatsword or a greataxe. Yeah, that's it.

[MENTION=11821]Obryn[/MENTION]: you avoid the question. It's not that we assume non-gamers are too thick to get into Essentials. The question is whether Essentials has made it eaiser for them to get into D&D. Do you think the product proliferation and naming of the books has made it easier? Yes? Tell us why. Thanks.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The question is whether Essentials has made it eaiser for them to get into D&D. Do you think the product proliferation and naming of the books has made it easier? Yes? Tell us why. Thanks.

I'll tell you exactly why.

Eseentials has a Red Box that will appear on the shelves of non-traditional locations for RPGs. That's Number 1. So all those adults, parents and kids who do not ordinarily walk through the sci-fi/fantasy section of Borders or Barnes & Noble (thus missing the RPG section altogether, as that's the usual place for it), or who don't stop in at select game or comic shops... will actually now SEE a Dungeons & Dragons game product to purchase. Perhaps even for the first time. So there's no confusion. Unless they can't tell the difference between D&D and Connect Four... and if that's the case, then they probably shouldn't be playing games in the first place.

Number 2. Essentials has a specific color palate, a specific font style, and has the word 'Essentials' across the packaging. That tells practically everyone that this is a specific group of products that should be taken as a whole... and anything that does not look like this or is identified as this, is not a part of it. Thus, you can ignore those other things for the time being. After all... nowhere on these Essentials book covers are the words 'Fourth Edition' found. So we can't even use the excuse of "well, THESE say 4th edition, and THOSE say 4th edition... so which ones should we choose?"

Did we think people were going to get confused when 4E was released when those books appeared on shelves right next to 3.5 products that had not yet been sold off? Of course not! Because we accepted that PEOPLE AREN'T IDIOTS. So for any of us to think that someone will see a nice big section of softcover Essentials products right next to a set of hardcover 4E products and be afraid that they won't be able to tell that these might two separate things... is ludicrous.

And let's just be completely honest here. Of the entire amount of completely new D&D players that will be coming in to the game this fall, winter and spring... how many of these will be players that won't have an established D&D player or two right there with them helping them out? The answer is extremely few. We completely oversell the idea of five kids with absolutely no concept what D&D is, getting together to start a game without having at least one of them having SOME experience with RPGs in some format... whether it be tabletop, videogame, or whatever. Most new players get into the game by joining already-established players who have already-established games, or who are starting up new games. And for those new players... voila! They have someone there to tell them what they might need to play.

That's the reality of the situation. And that's why Essentials does not muddy any issues with people learning D&D for the first time. Because the idea of five kids wandering into the RPG section of Borders books and deciding to buy D&D for the very first time completely on a whim without any of them having any idea of what it is they are actually buying... is a MYTH.

 

[Jacob Marley]

Eseentials has a Red Box that will appear on the shelves of non-traditional locations for RPGs. That's Number 1. So all those adults, parents and kids who do not ordinarily walk through the sci-fi/fantasy section of Borders or Barnes & Noble (thus missing the RPG section altogether, as that's the usual place for it), or who don't stop in at select game or comic shops... will actually now SEE a Dungeons & Dragons game product to purchase. Perhaps even for the first time. So there's no confusion. Unless they can't tell the difference between D&D and Connect Four... and if that's the case, then they probably shouldn't be playing games in the first place.

I haven't been into a Barnes & Noble or a Borders recently, but, are these companies placing D&D Essentials in a separate location from the rest of the RPG, Anime, Comics section?

At the Borders I shop at (Rosedale Mall, Roseville, MN), the Sci-fi/Fantasy books are located on the main floor - which sees a lot of traffic - whereas the Anime, Comics, and RPGs are on the upper floor - which sees far less traffic.

 

[MrMyth]

I haven't been into a Barnes & Noble or a Borders recently, but, are these companies placing D&D Essentials in a separate location from the rest of the RPG, Anime, Comics section?

I don't imagine so, though it's possible the paperback format might give Essentials a better chance at ending up on the ends of book-isles or in slight more visible locations.

But I suspect his point was instead referring to the Red Box being sold in Walmart and Target. Thus, that will end up as a gift or purchase for those whom wouldn't normally run into D&D products - and, once purchased, it will direct the new players to the other relevant Essentials products they can buy.

 

[Windjammer]

I'll tell you exactly why.

I see.

The ruse of exchanging the trade dress of the 2008 Starter Set, not to mention the proliferation of having a host of additional products to go with it, proved quite unnecessary then.