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D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed
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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 9455632" data-attributes="member: 7026594"><p>I'm saying the default expectation by TSR. Obviously some folks were starting to play in a more heroic mode in the 70s. Possibly as early as '75 like with Lee Gold's crew in CA playing more story-oriented (being more sci-fi fans and less wargamers). The 70s (as we see documented in <em>The Elusive Shift</em>) saw the big creative explosion of people discussing agendas of play, but TSR lagged a bit in how much they emphasized the more story-forward approach. What came to be known as the <a href="https://retiredadventurer.blogspot.com/2021/04/six-cultures-of-play.html" target="_blank">Trad culture of play vs. Classic</a>, in Gary's mold. </p><p></p><p>1E AD&D in the '78-'88 period was trying to accommodate both approaches, but as their customer base shifted younger in the fad years, as sensationalist media and reactionaries started demonizing the game, and as the Hickman Revolution and Dragonlance took off, TSR shifted increasingly away from supporting amoral adventuring heroes and the option to play villains, and more and more toward the expectation being that you'd play goodly heroes. 2E in 1989 making gold for xp an optional rule was another concrete watermark. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, I agree, but in AD&D terms that heroic action is Good, even if the character is generally neutral. </p><p></p><p>Micah was talking about morally positive and benevolent actions, and in referencing lawful and good I was talking less about character alignments and more about differentiating two definitions of "heroic". Morally brave and admirable vs epic, extraordinary, and superlative in the scale of a hero's capabilities and actions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 9455632, member: 7026594"] I'm saying the default expectation by TSR. Obviously some folks were starting to play in a more heroic mode in the 70s. Possibly as early as '75 like with Lee Gold's crew in CA playing more story-oriented (being more sci-fi fans and less wargamers). The 70s (as we see documented in [I]The Elusive Shift[/I]) saw the big creative explosion of people discussing agendas of play, but TSR lagged a bit in how much they emphasized the more story-forward approach. What came to be known as the [URL='https://retiredadventurer.blogspot.com/2021/04/six-cultures-of-play.html']Trad culture of play vs. Classic[/URL], in Gary's mold. 1E AD&D in the '78-'88 period was trying to accommodate both approaches, but as their customer base shifted younger in the fad years, as sensationalist media and reactionaries started demonizing the game, and as the Hickman Revolution and Dragonlance took off, TSR shifted increasingly away from supporting amoral adventuring heroes and the option to play villains, and more and more toward the expectation being that you'd play goodly heroes. 2E in 1989 making gold for xp an optional rule was another concrete watermark. Sure, I agree, but in AD&D terms that heroic action is Good, even if the character is generally neutral. Micah was talking about morally positive and benevolent actions, and in referencing lawful and good I was talking less about character alignments and more about differentiating two definitions of "heroic". Morally brave and admirable vs epic, extraordinary, and superlative in the scale of a hero's capabilities and actions. [/QUOTE]
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