D&D 3.5 New Campaign Idea

[mwnrnc]

First time DM here, looking for some plot help for a 3.5 campaign. My campaign world is somewhat grimdark with a distant, unreachable God. The religion is monotheistic with a powerful, Catholic-esque church. The devils are fallen angels and have conquered the demons and use them as minions/lieutenants. There are no hard alignment rules ('detect alignment' only works on outsiders, clerics/paladins, 'smite evil' is 'smite heretic,' etc.). Arcane Magic is rare and strictly controlled, Divine Magic is rare but more trusted. Humans are the strongest power but are divided into feudal monarchies. There are barbarians to the north, cults in the cities & towns, and Orcs in the wilds. Elves & Dwarves maintain enclaves separate from humanity.

While I have lots of ideas for individual encounters and the world, I have no good ideas for an overarching conflict. I want it to be suitably epic and world-changing. My players are a smart, mature bunch who would appreciate a labyrinthine plot they have to figure out. The world's Satan merely trying to conquer the Material Plane seems too simple on its own.

This is where I was hoping I could get some help. Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Gilladian]

What if there is a third "force" or entity? Not evil or good, but neutral. The idea of an earth deity, or of a living soul for the world, which is more primeval, more basic, than either good or evil.

This force may or may not have conscious will, but it wants to be rid of both other groups, which irritate and annoy it. Perhaps there are nature spirits which can tap into the unconscious power of this force. Some may use it for their own ends, good or bad, but they all want to rid the world of the monotheistic god and his fallen angels.

It may be that some of the barbarians even follow this "force". They may call it "mother earth" or they may call it "the ancestor". Whatever, they probably don't realize that in the end, it calls them nothing at all. Worshipping and believing in such an entity would probably be senseless. It cares nothing for the insignificant creatures that inhabit its surface.

You'd have to decide if siding with this being was eventually the saving or the ultimate downfall of the intelligent races.

 

[mwnrnc]

I like it, thanks for the input. It adds a different dynamic to angels vs. demons and, practically speaking, gives me a power source for druids, shamans, and the sort. That it is indifferent at best further differentiates it from the standard "Earth Mother" tree-hugging, flower-child fare. I really appreciate it!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A few things you might want to take a look at:

1. Anger of Angels- just because there are devils who are fallen angels doesn't mean the divine conflict is over, leading to...
2. The Prophesy movies with Cristopher Walken.
3. Dogma is another movie with a plot that could provide an interesting facet to your campaign.
4. Book of the Righteous, especially the part about the Holy Warriors. I have the 3Ed version in hardcover, but the 3.5 HW update is PDF only, AFAIK.
5. Testament
6. Nephilim- I've used this concept to help create racial classes (a la Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved) for all of the Planetouched...and expanded the definition to include any sentient being (human, elf, dwarf, etc) with a touch of extraplanar ancestry. In your campaign, they would be used almost as is.

All of these could help you flesh out areas of your campaign, given the flavor you're describing.

 

[Sunking]

what about a fraction of the church turns away from the main way and create theyr own way of belife (protostants) the you have two forces of rightius beliving in the same god but fighting ower wich way is the right, you might even create more then just 2 groups, one might belive more strongly in a minor prophets words than the main line and mold theyr faith strongly around him/her, one belive in the old books and traditions rather then the new reformed holy texts.....

then there is always the Divine vs arcane
1) the (big bad) church wants calls to holy war ageinst the "evil" and "corupt" wiches (arcane casters) who are after the souls of the people (or so the church states)
2) the (big bad) wizards are tired of the restrictions of the church (and god) and wishes to be on top of the foodchain (so the can summon devils/demons, charm the beautifull barmaid to stuff as they please)

and offcourse the big twist
the fallen angels are doing it out of love for the mortals, becaus the have found out that the god is only doing it for fun, to watch mortals squirm and suffer until he finds somthing better to do.
so they are actualy just trying to overthrow him so there can be justis for the mortals.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

The following is just me throwing out ideas as they come to me, so please forgive the unstructured nature of it.

How's about all sides in the conflict of Good vs. Evil are inimical to mortals. To them mortals are just pawns in their conflict.

Actually use the PCs as pawns of some Angel. To start with they get help and advice from their Angelic mentor but at a later date, when they have come to trust and rely upon the angel, they get sent on a suicide mission. Either they are to be used as a distraction or maybe they have become a liability and need to be removed from play. Of course they have to survive, but maybe a friendly NPC or 2 bites the big one on the mission. Have a few of the Angels and Devils actually feel pity for the mortals and give the PCs some help and hints as to true the nature of the conflict. These could be the ones who let the PCs know they were set up. When the PCs confront their former mentor he dismisses them and their concerns.

The PCs can then either approach, or be approached, by someone from the other side. Would be really good if it was someone they'd already been in conflict with. Lets the paranoia build as they wait for the inevitable betrayal. Or set up the inevitable betrayal.

In the end the PCs have to decide whether to take sides or to reject the lot of them and try to lead people away from this reliance on otherworldy beings, who only have their own agenda in mind in any case. A good old humanist plot twist to the usual high fantasy Angels v Devils thing.

Maybe make the Good vs Evil thing more of a Cold War rather than a Shooting War. This would allow particularly gung-ho PCs to over step the mark and become the liabilities that need to be removed.

In terms of ending the conflict there needs to be some way that a handful of mere mortals can fight the Hordes of Heaven and Hell to a standstill. I would suggest, rather than finding some uber-artifact, they are given the chance to get Heaven and Hell into a stand up fight for a little Mutual Assured Destruction.

A question that has just come to me is, how important is the Earth in this conflict? Is it central? The site of future Aramageddon? Or is it merely one of millions of tiny little fly specks in the grand, multiverse spanning conflict?

If it is a mere backwater then the PCs could get their neutrality by getting something over the local Angelic and Devilish commanders. Maybe they are/were lovers or in cahoots in some other, less biological, fashion. Victory through blackmail.

If it's central then I'd go with the MAD suggestion above.

My answer has focussed mostly on direct confrontation with the Angels and Devils. You mentioned the Church. Obviously you want that to come into play.

Obviously the church is the face of the the Angelic organisation. They are the people the PCs liase with in the beginning, before coming to the attention of the Angelic Mentor. The Church would be the ones who are first sent to eliminate the PCs after they go rogue. Plus you have the opportuntiy to play up all those debauched churchman cliches. Fun!

How proactive are your players? The more they are the better I'm thinking otherwise they may never become the third party of the conflict. You may need to give them a humanist faction already in existence. Mmm, who would jointhis faction. Idealists and those who want to be rid of the Angels etc. But maybe some of them are so disillusioned by it all you get a strain of nihilists and outright lunatics who want to destroy the world since 'there's no reason for anything anymore.'

cheers, hope there's some food for thought here.

 

[mwnrnc]

Thank you so much for the help, I've incorporate many of these ideas into my campaign. Since you were such a big help in the big picture, I thought maybe you'd have some suggestions for something a little more specific.

The "theme" of this chapter of my campaign is lust and excess. My PC's are in possession of a scroll made of human skin with various icons and figures written in blood on it. They are taking this scroll to Brother Willem of the isolated Thornmoor Monastery for translation. This monastery will also be the site of the region's first ecumenical council in the weeks to come and, in a egalitarian spirit, nuns from a mission in the nearby "city of vice" will be allowed to participate. Unfortunately, Brother Caiaphas believes that women are innately sinful and decides to punish those who advocated their inclusion as guilty of lust. He thus releases a demon (modified succubus) bound beneath the monastery who proceeds to kill several monks and generally corrupt the place. Her presence amplifies the repressed desire for pleasure in the monks, as well as their predilection for inflicting pain, both on others and themselves, as punishment and sacrifice. An inquisitor with a small retinue will also arrive at the monastery a day or so after the PCs.

I want the PCs to be investigated by the Inquisitor to establish him for later use. I also want the PCs to investigate the murders of the monks and be struck by the growing suspicion that something is terribly wrong, which gets worse. The culmination of the chapter will be the PCs fighting through a disturbing, corrupt monastery to battle the succubus.

Problems:
1- One of my PCs is a devil worshiper, although standard divination magic does not work in my campaign
2- The inquisitor is neither corrupt, nor a fool, so how to explain him missing the devil worshiper and a growing demonic taint. I'd also rather he not die.
3- I don't want Brother Willem to be corrupt, as he is a former inquisitor, though is now hopelessly senile
4- I want the demon to have time to really corrupt the monks (so i can create macabre art encounters), but if the monks are that corrupt, i must explain how they escape the notice of their un-corrupt fellows, the PCs, and an inquisitor, or why the corrupt monks do not simply kill the interlopers when they become troublesome
5 - I toyed with the idea of having a small town near the monastery that would house a cult worshiping the demon, but was again faced with the problem of secrecy vs. impact.

Sorry for the length, but I wanted to be as descriptive of my situation as possible. Thank you again for your help so far. Any ideas for what I can do here?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Another idea not related to your latest request (sorry): why monotheistic? Well, maybe the One God ruthlessly crushed all the others in the pantheon and wiped away all knowledge and traces of their existence. Perhaps those other deities are trapped somewhere. And, maybe not all traces were wiped away as the PC's stumble upon a clue or two...

Regarding your latest post and the problems:

1. I can only see this as 'working out' in the short or long term by your player. If that's the choice your player made, then he'll have to work it out. It's only going to make him come out on the wrong side of the rest of the party, though.

2. The one thing to be careful of is having the inquisitor take the spotlight. If there's a external inquisitor who doesn't factor into the actual plot, then why are the PCs involved? It seems like they'll be vying for spotlight time, which isn't really good for the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the PC's just give him all their info and then leave (if you have a semi-sandbox campaign).

3. Hopelessly senile = useless. I don't like that description at all. It might work if he were just mad, but hopelessly senile means he can't transcribe anything. Why's he even involved in the plot?

4. Monks are notoriously introverted and keep to themselves almost all the time. It's fairly easy to remain undetected for any such hidden activities. Heck, it wouldn't be surprising to ignore monks that are 'missing' for several days. It happens frequently for some monks to be giving leave for personal pursuits.

 

[mwnrnc]

Thanks for the ideas.

1. I can only see this as 'working out' in the short or long term by your player.

That is the conclusion I've kind of come to.

2. The one thing to be careful of is having the inquisitor take the spotlight.

As a player, I always hated having random NPCs with little to no characterization just show up and give us quests or antagonize us. I want the inquisitor to be a future ally or enemy for the party, perhaps even for beyond this campaign. My original idea was to have him at the monastery to check it out before the arrival of the others for the council. He would likely be suspicious of the PCs and investigate them one on one in a bit of RP. He could also give help and potentially give them a gentle shove in my direction if they wander off. One of my players has a tendency to show NO natural curiosity unless he is specifically asked/ordered/bribed to do something. Of course, the inquisitor would be nowhere near the final battle and would not take the lead on the investigation. In fact, I'd rather the PCs be left guessing as to just what he IS doing. Previously the party's patron was Father Ulrich, a blustering but corrupt and usually ineffectual lout. The inquisitor is a foil to this, as he is both canny and dangerous.

3. Hopelessly senile = useless.

Poor choice of words on my part. He's very eccentric, probably mad. The kind of person who can minutely evaluate an ancient text and decipher it, but miss that his whole monastery is being corrupted.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Regarding the inquisitor, I only urge caution. Perhaps you have a better idea in your head that I haven't inferred correctly yet. If so, my apologies. However, from what I am understanding, the inquisitor is in fact the person responsible for the investigation and the PCs should know this or easily be able to figure it out. Once that occurs, and I have no reason to assume it wouldn't, the PCs will fade from the limelight OR they will be expected to uncover corruption on the part of the inquisitor.

So, if I missed something, I apologize, and I don't mean to force you to explain everything to me. This just seems like a problem IMO. Now, let's say the problem does exist like I assume it does (or even if not), an idea is that maybe no the inquisitor himself, but someone in his party is corrupted. That person (in his retinue) is stifling the inquisitor at every turn, possibly laying blame on the PCs. That is really the goal of the PCs, to uncover the problem in the inquisitor's midst to allow him to continue his work. Perhaps it's a key position in the retinue that once resolved (the corrupted individual is arrested/killed), the position must be filled by one or more PCs.

Anyways, just some ideas. Please feel free to ignore and you need not explain yourself further unless you wish to.