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<blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8388825" data-attributes="member: 7032025">I think it's exactly the part that went wrong with 3e, it's really interesting to me to find it in print and in the design intention.What I think it means was that there is a challenge, and that the challenge needs to be met. In itself, why not, earlier editions quite clearly had the challenge just to survive, but in 3e, you were meant to &quot;win&quot;, whatever that is (whereas I was happily surprised, re-reading my Moldway, the amount of times where it says that the game is not about winning). I just checked quickly, but the part that was in most editions about the fact that D&amp;D is not about winning and losing seems to be absent from 3e.This in turn, for me, led to the drift of the game towards more and more supplements, more power through uncontrolled combos, DMs becoming harsher when faced with the need to provide greater and greater challenges, more and more players turning to powergaming just to survive the challenges, DMs v.s Players attitude, etc. in all everything that I don't like in what should be the worlds' most cooperative game.I hope that competitiveness has been banned from 5e onwards, hard to be sure but it still seems like it to me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lyxen, post: 8388825, member: 7032025"] I think it's exactly the part that went wrong with 3e, it's really interesting to me to find it in print and in the design intention. What I think it means was that there is a challenge, and that the challenge needs to be met. In itself, why not, earlier editions quite clearly had the challenge just to survive, but in 3e, you were meant to "win", whatever that is (whereas I was happily surprised, re-reading my Moldway, the amount of times where it says that the game is not about winning). I just checked quickly, but the part that was in most editions about the fact that D&D is not about winning and losing seems to be absent from 3e. This in turn, for me, led to the drift of the game towards more and more supplements, more power through uncontrolled combos, DMs becoming harsher when faced with the need to provide greater and greater challenges, more and more players turning to powergaming just to survive the challenges, DMs v.s Players attitude, etc. in all everything that I don't like in what should be the worlds' most cooperative game. I hope that competitiveness has been banned from 5e onwards, hard to be sure but it still seems like it to me. [/QUOTE]

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