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<blockquote data-quote="sabrinathecat" data-source="post: 6258277" data-attributes="member: 89838"><p>There is absolutely no reason why any of this could not be part of a 4e game. It is a flaw in the DM, the writing, or the players. In fact, I'd make it an elaborate skill challenge. In order to get the dragon to the point where the as-statted dragon is in condition for the party to fight it, they Must complete the skill challenge for the basic fighting chance against an adult or older dragon. If the party fails the skill challenge, the dragon is not where expected, but rather destroys a nearby village or town, and the few survivors blame the party, and word of their failure and the suffering that resulted will spread across the land (until they redeem their reputations at the next tier--if ever). Sure, you can soften it a bit, but that's the argument that failing a skill challenge should have actual consequences--something most modules did not write in properly. I would reward a party that puts together a creative strategy, regardless of the edition. </p><p>You are correct about bearding a dragon in its lair. I refer once again to the classic dragon magazine article from the 80s (I really must look up the specific issue again) which made the case that "if your party can just walk in and kill the dragon because it is nothing more than a sack of HP, you are playing it wrong." Or you can look up <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buCPAD4xgoM" target="_blank">"white dragon rude awakening"</a> on youtube. (cough, cough)</p><p>Those "basic tactics" get quite elaborate come epic. The rogue and ranger in the party have very complicated 1st round combos in the party (I play the somewhat less complicated fighter). It takes a while to resolve it all, and sometimes they don't have a perfect set-up, but they usually find a way to make it work, with the extra movement that their epic destinies or paragon paths and action points give them. Whenever possible, these two scout ahead for a glimpse of the next encounter so that we can pick targets and go in with a plan (no plan survives first contact with the dice, however).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="sabrinathecat, post: 6258277, member: 89838"] There is absolutely no reason why any of this could not be part of a 4e game. It is a flaw in the DM, the writing, or the players. In fact, I'd make it an elaborate skill challenge. In order to get the dragon to the point where the as-statted dragon is in condition for the party to fight it, they Must complete the skill challenge for the basic fighting chance against an adult or older dragon. If the party fails the skill challenge, the dragon is not where expected, but rather destroys a nearby village or town, and the few survivors blame the party, and word of their failure and the suffering that resulted will spread across the land (until they redeem their reputations at the next tier--if ever). Sure, you can soften it a bit, but that's the argument that failing a skill challenge should have actual consequences--something most modules did not write in properly. I would reward a party that puts together a creative strategy, regardless of the edition. You are correct about bearding a dragon in its lair. I refer once again to the classic dragon magazine article from the 80s (I really must look up the specific issue again) which made the case that "if your party can just walk in and kill the dragon because it is nothing more than a sack of HP, you are playing it wrong." Or you can look up [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buCPAD4xgoM"]"white dragon rude awakening"[/URL] on youtube. (cough, cough) Those "basic tactics" get quite elaborate come epic. The rogue and ranger in the party have very complicated 1st round combos in the party (I play the somewhat less complicated fighter). It takes a while to resolve it all, and sometimes they don't have a perfect set-up, but they usually find a way to make it work, with the extra movement that their epic destinies or paragon paths and action points give them. Whenever possible, these two scout ahead for a glimpse of the next encounter so that we can pick targets and go in with a plan (no plan survives first contact with the dice, however). [/QUOTE]
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