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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6258711" data-attributes="member: 82106">Well, if you are going to call 'make the high level door Adamantium' a form of scaling then the whole question is rendered pointless. The distinction is "does the DC follow the narrative and thus track in-game logic or not?" If it does, then its fixed DCs applied to specific things (IE adamantium doors are DC30, wood doors are DC 12, not level 30 doors are DC 30, level 1 doors are DC 12).As for Page 42, it never hints in the slightest way that DC arise purely from level. I don't think that Matt intended that at all when he wrote that section of the DMG. I think it never would have even occurred to him that you would think that way. The logic is simple, you will provide narrative appropriate to the level of the PCs, and thus DCs will be appropriate to those challenges. The DMG then MUST logically provide either a complete laundry list of every possible DC for every situation and grade of situation, or it must provide a basic set of DCs appropriate to challenges of each level in a compact chart. Clearly 4e chose the latter approach, though they did helpfully also provide DCs for a few common things like door breaking, etc.I don't think that 'classic' 4e is wonky at all, it is entirely consistent, objective fictional elements have specific DCs associated, and the DM should see to it that PCs are challenged with fiction that meets their ability, or slightly exceeds it. Sadly what Essentials did was undermine the whole concept and make the entire skill progression a laughable fiction. At the same time it ruined a perfectly good concept, which was that the DM could easily reskin the world to create whatever fiction he wanted (IE you could have a ridiculous power level simply be changing what fiction mapped to what DC, a 1st level PC could bash adamantium doors and leap 500' chasms simply by changing the mapping of DC to fiction without the rules caring a bit). Now, you CAN still do that in Essentials, but its silly in that a wooden door and an adamantium door will ALWAYS both be DC 12 for a level 1 Essentials PC BTB. Its pretty clear why people found that distasteful and frankly I just put a big red X over the whole skill chapter in my RC (not really, and the rules there are generally more clear, but I would never use their idiotic scaling DCs).</blockquote>

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