D&D 4e Rules Compendium in online!

[Mercutio01]

Okay - so it's not a Rules Compendium. It's D&D Compendium. Other people keep saying saying that it was always intended to be only a player reference. I'd like to see some links to that effect with the exception of the news post that came out yesterday. Ever since the announcement at GenCon last year, I've been under the distinct impression that it was going to be a total digital reference to the rules en masse. I'd also like to add a link that supports my thoughts. Ampersand from May 2007

D&D Insider’s free beta period coincides with the launch of 4th Edition. You get to try out the first digital components without paying the subscription fees, and you can provide feedback to help us improve your experience. The initial rollout includes Dragon and Dungeon online magazines, and the D&D Rules Compendium. This powerful online resource for players and Dungeon Masters alike will be updated with each new D&D release (whether it’s an analog game product or a digital magazine), making it the place to go in order to find what you need, when you need it.

Oh, and this one too. Ampersand from June 9th

The D&D Character Builder application lets you create a D&D character, manage that character, print a character sheet, and save different versions of that character as you experiment with the various options and build concepts. Once you use this program to create a character, you'll never want to use any other method. Plus, it works directly with the D&D Rules Compendium, so you know you're always pulling from the latest rules material available.

There's that Rules Compendium phrase again.

Also note, Scott Rouse on tape from February.

"Rules Database" "Full access to all the rules for subscribers" "purchase PDF books"

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Sure, there can be features that would make it even more useful. If they're added, that would be awesome. All I'm arguing is that I feel it's already useful, and saying it's useless in my opinion is a bit overdramatic.

I'm saying it's useless during normal play, and it's useless to GMs. That's not overdramatic, that's largely accurate. At most it's a slightly overstatment, but I think it's well within the bounds, frankly. I've never said it was totally useless (afaik), so don't make stuff up when you're quoting me, for god's sake! It's vaguely useful for chargen, but it's about to be rendered largely irrelevant by the character builder! Which lets you build and advance characters! If WotC don't see that as a problem, they've lost it.

As for rituals, why are you looking one up? You don't even need to know the rules for it if an NPC is doing it. This isn't 3E. I've RUN three adventures and I can't see ANY time we'd have used this, even though we're still learning! Everything we had to look up was a rule or stats on a monster/trap. Everything.

Why am I posting to you when you disgust me? Because I don't like to see the boards filled with fan-ish nonsense. I mean, really, at this stage, you could stop posting any content in your posts and simply have sig be two lines:

1) Take what you're given and like it.
2) It'll all be fine if we do nothing.

As for the encounter builder, I say WHAT encounter builder? You "hope" it still exists? I very much doubt that it does.

I mean, look: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insider/gametable

Any sign of an encounter builder there? It's not mentioned, even as part of the Dungeon Builder, say, yet it seems like it would be a pretty big deal.

The cynic in me would be unsurprised if that had been removed entirely, or, more marketably, linked to the miniatures you buy. Maybe you only get the ability to use the encounter-builder by selecting miniatures you have available. I bet corporate would love that.

So, two points for you to answer:

1) Will this still be "useful" in your opinion when the character builder exists? Assuming the character builder lets you see what the powers you're selecting do (and if it doesn't then I give on WotC's online service, I really do).

2) Do you think that the encounter builder is likely to return/appear? Like, more than 75% likely, say.

 

[lkj]

. . .

1) Will this still be "useful" in your opinion when the character builder exists? Assuming the character builder lets you see what the powers you're selecting do (and if it doesn't then I give on WotC's online service, I really do).

I really, really don't want to get between you two. But your post did prompt an observation from me.

The character builder, if I recall correctly, uses the Compendium. I'm almost certain I've seen that somewhere. On some level, one could argue that the Character Builder is an application of the Compendium.
Certainly, you can argue that they could just keep the Compendium 'backend' cuz it's 'useless'.

But I think that the browse feature could be quite useful once there's a bunch of supplements in there. We'll see.

It's also worth noting that WotC isn't trying to sell these applications piecemeal (so far). They are supposed to be part of a suite of applications. So, maybe arguing about whether it's worth paying for an individual application-- while interesting-- won't be the point.

At any rate, I haven't formed a strong opinion about the Compendium. I'll see how it shapes up as they introduce features.

AD

 

[Scribble]

I'm saying it's useless during normal play, and it's useless to GMs. That's not overdramatic, that's largely accurate. At most it's a slightly overstatment, but I think it's well within the bounds, frankly. I've never said it was totally useless (afaik), so don't make stuff up when you're quoting me, for god's sake! It's vaguely useful for chargen, but it's about to be rendered largely irrelevant by the character builder! Which lets you build and advance characters! If WotC don't see that as a problem, they've lost it.

I dissagree with you, as I think it's usefull.

As for rituals, why are you looking one up? You don't even need to know the rules for it if an NPC is doing it. This isn't 3E. I've RUN three adventures and I can't see ANY time we'd have used this, even though we're still learning! Everything we had to look up was a rule or stats on a monster/trap. Everything.

Because I want to see if there's a ritual premade for me to use for something? maybe it's something I want to ut in the game as a reward, or as a fun thing. maybe I just want to see a list of rituals available.
maybe because someone sent me an email asking how a ritual worked?
Maybe because I want to put a ritual in that my players can get access to, but I want to see if it's lready been done because why spend time re-inventing the wheel???

Who knows! The point is I can see myself wanting to have a list of rituals, and I can see myself using a searchable index of the above.

Furthermore, the point is an index of things spanning multiple sources is useful to me, and to others as well based on the amount of "We need a dragon index" posts / and letters to the editor I've seen.

A searchable index with other added features, and one that lets me not have to even have the bnooks on me??? Even better!

Why am I posting to you when you disgust me? Because I don't like to see the boards filled with fan-ish nonsense. I mean, really, at this stage, you could stop posting any content in your posts and simply have sig be two lines:

1) Take what you're given and like it.
2) It'll all be fine if we do nothing.

take what you're given and work with it. Or constuctively critisize it. Don't take waht you have and immediately pronounce the end of all days and utter ruin and horror which is what I see from a lot of people lately.

it's pointless to do that except to sound off. It seems like you're taking this DDI thing WAY too personally.

If you want other features say so, but don't call someone names because they dissagree with you.

For the first time I might use my ignore list, if you can't post without insulting someone who dissagrees with you.

As for the encounter builder, I say WHAT encounter builder? You "hope" it still exists? I very much doubt that it does.

I mean, look: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insider/gametable

Any sign of an encounter builder there? It's not mentioned, even as part of the Dungeon Builder, say, yet it seems like it would be a pretty big deal.

Again I say, I hope the encounter builder is still part of the deal. I'm indicating that an encounter builder would be something as a DM I'm interested in, and it would entice me to pay money to have it.

if it's not there, I would be less enticed to pay money for the DDI service.

At the end of the day, however, I purchase things based on what I'm being sold. I don't HAVE to buy DDI. If I feel, when they start charging for it, that it's not worth my money then I won't buy it! I'm not going to sit here and whine about it. I just won't buy it! I also won't begrudge someone for buying it because they find the things the DDI offers to be useful.

The cynic in me would be unsurprised if that had been removed entirely, or, more marketably, linked to the miniatures you buy. Maybe you only get the ability to use the encounter-builder by selecting miniatures you have available. I bet corporate would love that.

Great so you're a cynic? I'm not. If your example proves true, it would be less incentive for me to buy it?

You act like WoTC somehow is forcing you to buy this thing!

1) Will this still be "useful" in your opinion when the character builder exists? Assuming the character builder lets you see what the powers you're selecting do (and if it doesn't then I give on WotC's online service, I really do).

Yes, because sometimes I need to find this info when I'm not building a character. Also character builders are diferent then indexes. A character buider will probably work in stages. Pick race, pick class, choose powers. whereas an index is an overview of everything available.

2) Do you think that the encounter builder is likely to return/appear? Like, more than 75% likely, say.

I don't know? I'm not on WoTC's DDI team. I'm an end user. If it returns, I'll be happy, and it wil be something I'll be interested in buying.

They're not asking me to throw down money blindly and see what happens... It's not a bet, it's not a stock.

It's a product. If when the time comes I don't like the product, again, I won't buy it!

 

[Simplicity]

I'm saying it's useless during normal play, and it's useless to GMs. That's not overdramatic, that's largely accurate.

Maybe it's accurate for you. It's not accurate in my book. I personally think that it's pretty useful during play to be able to type in "Beacon of Hope" or whatever a power name is... And suddenly I know everything about that power. Looking for spell effects was half of what used to slow 3.x down. This is much faster than flipping through the PHB.

Sure a glossary would be nice too. I'm not going to complain if they add it.

Would I pay $15/month for what's currently available? Of course not. Good thing no one is asking me to yet.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Scribble, you've convinced me of two things. First off, that Hong is worth taking off ignore, because I don't like to have more than one person on ignore, and two, that you're precisely one post away from getting on my ignore list. It'd be unfair for me to tell you that without explaining why, as you're clearly fairly young and new to this posting on the internet business, so here's why:

1) You're quoting my post but not referencing the quotes. Don't quote me if you're not going to reference me directly. It wastes space and confuses the issue.

2) Your posts are clearly written in extreme haste, full of mispellings, unecessary breaks, and typos. So I do not believe you're actually thinking about what you're writing at all. I'd suggest you slow down and think seriously about what you're posting. I know your name is Scribble, but you don't need to take that literally. Edit your posts a bit. See what needs to be there, and what doesn't.

3) Specific issues:

I dissagree with you, as I think it's usefull.

No, you're misrepresenting my position by saying that. Either you didn't read the bit you quoted. As you seem to lack malice, I feel it's the former. I'm saying it's usefulness is limited to character generation, not that it's blankly "not useful". Others may be, but I am not.

Or constuctively critisize it. Don't take waht you have and immediately pronounce the end of all days and utter ruin and horror which is what I see from a lot of people lately.

Again, either you didn't read, or you're intentionally misrepresenting my position. Quote me where I "pronounce the end of all days and utter ruin and horror". I feel am criticizing constructively. I've described what they need to add, and I've pointed out the problems with what they have. If you're generalising, "what I see from a lot of people" implies, do not quote me and then do so. That's downright rude. I'd advise just not generalising, and instead responding to the posts people actually write.

I also won't begrudge someone for buying it because they find the things the DDI offers to be useful.

Not reading or misleading again. I've not said that I begrudge anyone. I have said that this tool is only significantly useful in character generation, and I've played 4E and written adventures for it, so I think I have some vague basis for saying this. I'm not saying you're a bad person for liking it. I am saying that your apparent attitude is not helpful to it being improved or added to.

Great so you're a cynic?

Again with the not reading or attempting to mislead. That's not what I said, is it? Re-read slowly it if you think it is.

Finally you say two things which are worth responding to properly, I presume you'd calmed down - so:

Yes, because sometimes I need to find this info when I'm not building a character. Also character builders are diferent then indexes. A character buider will probably work in stages. Pick race, pick class, choose powers. whereas an index is an overview of everything available.

But it further limits it's potential utility, you'd agree, I think? I'm telling you as someone who has written and run adventures for 4E, that this tool is unlikely to see significant use in either department. If I was building a player character right now, I might use it, because it would save time in some ways. I'm sure I'll find a use for it every third or forth adventure I write, but I think your examples regarding rituals were outright unrealistic (why would a player e-mail you when he could just look in his PHB or use this tool, for example).

It's not what I was expecting, and it's not something that's likely to useful to DMs on a regular basis in it's present form.

I don't know? I'm not on WoTC's DDI team. I'm an end user. If it returns, I'll be happy, and it wil be something I'll be interested in buying.

Yep, but this is problematic because previously you said:

I agree it would be nice to have a way to look up these elements too. They talked about an encounter builder, as the mirror to the character creator. I'm guessing (unless that was scrapped) that stuff will be in there.

So it seems to me that the reason you don't mind these elements not being present is partially based on the assumption that product no longer in evidence will appear bearing those features. Personally as I don't see any recent mention of the encounter builder, and since the encounter builder was last mentioned, they've changed the "Rules Compendium" from a rules compendium to what amounts to "chargen/advancement info". That doesn't make me a cynic, or even a skeptic. I'd have to be something other than purely rational be assuming that a product not mentioned existed, surely?

Aaaaanyway, if you just think a bit more before you post next time (you know how hastily you wrote that post), and maybe use the Preview function, then we'll get along just fine, and no ignores will have to happen, and as part of the deal, I'll take extra care to avoid insulting you. Sound ok?

 

[Scribble]

ignore me if you want. I'm done. See ya!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Maybe it's accurate for you. It's not accurate in my book. I personally think that it's pretty useful during play to be able to type in "Beacon of Hope" or whatever a power name is... And suddenly I know everything about that power. Looking for spell effects was half of what used to slow 3.x down. This is much faster than flipping through the PHB.

Yeah, and if this was before I'd run 4E, I'd think that too (I don't know if you have, of course). Now that I have, and this was never an issue, then I'm not seeing the utility. I expect it will come in handy one session, but I don't see this happening every session if the PCs actually wrote their powers down, particularly if they have them on index cards, as is the fashion.

As I've said, it's invalid to compare this to 3E. In 3E, you had a vast range of spells, and you could not write them all down in reasonable space. As a result, you had to look them up. In 4E, each character possesses a tightly limited set of abilities, typically 2 at-wills, and a handful of encounter, daily, and utility powers. So far, the players have had those all written down, and this is clearly part of 4E's design, taking the burden off the GM looking up what spells do, and putting it on the players to keep track of what their characters can do.

On the other hand, it will be useful to making those nice cards, as I can just bring stuff up and cut & paste it, ensuring the text is correct.

So that's nice, but then I've never denied it have chargen/advancement utility (I hope!).

ignore me if you want. I'm done. See ya!

The response I expected, sadly. Well, if you've put me on ignore, then I don't need to! Either way works!

 

[Scribble]

The response I expected, sadly. Well, if you've put me on ignore, then I don't need to! Either way works!

No, I haven't placed you on ignore. I'm just done talking to you about this topic, and possibly others in the future.

You're correct, I let things get to me a bit and for that I apologize to everyone in the thread. I guess I let being called a fanboy get to me for some reason. I guess I'm tired of people attacking me because I like to look on the bright side of things, and preffer to judge something by it's benefits as opposed to its drawbacks?

That said, I come to the boards to talk about D&D because talking about D&D is fun. If I'm arguing with someone, and feel they're being insulting, it's not fun, and not worth my time.

In each post, when you've dissagreed with me, you also seem to feel the need to somehow insult me as a person for my beliefs, or to try to enhance your own position I don't know. In anycase, there are plenty of people on the boards who can dissagree with me, without insulting me. These people are fun to talk to, and debate with.

So in the future, if you want to dissagree with me, and want to debate about soemthing, cool, we can do that. But if you throw insults into the mix, I'm not going to respond.

In anycase, I'm going to mod myself, step out of this thread, and move to another one.

happy gaming!

 

[Fifth Element]

2) Your posts are clearly written in extreme haste, full of mispellings, unecessary breaks, and typos. So I do not believe you're actually thinking about what you're writing at all. I'd suggest you slow down and think seriously about what you're posting. I know your name is Scribble, but you don't need to take that literally. Edit your posts a bit. See what needs to be there, and what doesn't.

What does this have to do with the content of Scribble's posts? It's condescending and pedantic. Discuss the message, not the messenger.