D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[Hussar]

Even in this example, I still don't see the need to tell people they shouldn't complain in a thread asking why they're complaining.

That's... not really what the thread is asking.

And, I do believe it's a perfectly valid response to complaints to point out that the thing people are complaining about doesn't actually exist.

Frankly, this:

I'm guessing these books are selling well though; I'm not sure to who. My only guess is new players coming into the hobby. Seems to be a pretty crazy gamble to alienate the hardcore gamers to cater to Zoomers and Magic fans in the hopes they stick with it.

is pretty indicative of just how out of touch you are. I mean, when the newest WotC book is hitting the top 10 on Amazon while still in pre-order, that's a LOT more than just catering to Zoomers and Magic fans. Your books don't sit in the early top 100 of Amazon for TEN YEARS if they are only selling to a slice of the population. I mean, good grief, right as I type this, the 5e PHB is #111 on Amazon of all books. Never minding that mainstream publishers would give up their left testicle for sales like this, this is a ten year old game book! This is unheard of.

To put it in context, the PHB has likely outsold all other RPG books outside of D&D combined. I don't mean just during the 5e era. I mean of all time. If you took all the books sold by all RPG publishers other than D&D, combined them, they'd still probably have less total sales than the 5e PHB.

They most certainly aren't alienating anyone.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Imagine how people being constantly told that their preferences are childish feel then. Maybe speak up for them?

Good point. No one's preferences should be denigrated. There are, obviously, plenty of things in 5e I don't like. But every player likes different things, and should be given the same respect I would want. If I've given a different impression, I am sorry for that.

 

[Brotton Goodfellow]

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[Zardnaar]

It absolutely is opinion. Should be obvious given the old-timers talking about how the game was only played a certain way back in the day.

Not opinion look at the mechanical options in older editions 2E-4E.

You can jump up and down going la la la if you want that's not an opinion. That's fact.

If you like those options or not is objective.

 

[Maxperson]

"Changed" <> "sanitized."

That's the point you're missing. There is no objective definition of what sanitized means.

Disneyfy =/= sanitized. That's only a relatively small portion of it. A lot of it is the damping down of mechanical deadliness and controversial topics like orcs that I mentioned. This is objective fact. Therefore, Disneyfication is also objective fact. Whether "sanitized" is something defined or not isn't really relevant to that.

You can like, dislike or be ambivalent about the Disneyfication, but it's a fact that it has happened.

 

[Maxperson]

Not opinion look at the mechanical options in older editions 2E-4E.

You can jump up and down going la la la if you want that's not an opinion. That's fact.

If you like those options or not is objective.

What do mechanical options have to do with Disneyfication, though?

 

[Zardnaar]

Disneyfy =/= sanitized. That's only a relatively small portion of it. A lot of it is the damping down of mechanical deadliness and controversial topics like orcs that I mentioned. This is objective fact. Therefore, Disneyfication is also objective fact. Whether "sanitized" is something defined or not isn't really relevant to that.

You can like, dislike or be ambivalent about the Disneyfication, but it's a fact that it has happened.

This that's the context the saying is usually used in. Feel free to not like the term but I understand what it means.

 

[Greg Benage]

I'm guessing these books are selling well though; I'm not sure to who. My only guess is new players coming into the hobby. Seems to be a pretty crazy gamble to alienate the hardcore gamers to cater to Zoomers and Magic fans in the hopes they stick with it.

The willingness of people to generalize from their own little bubble to everyone else is really mind-boggling. The game has never been so popular. As far as anecdotal evidence, I’m a fiftysomething who’s been playing since 1980 and I just pre-ordered SJ and JttRC. I seem to have plenty of company.

I don’t like everything Wizards is doing (never liked everything TSR did, either), but I absolutely think the “they’re leaving me behind!!!” crew is a small, very vocal online minority.

 

[Greg Benage]

Also, now mechanical options and deadliness of combat are Disneyfication? I think we’ve successfully rendered the term meaningless — or more likely, it just means “stuff I don’t like.”

Hand crossbows are Disneyfication. Prove me wrong.

 

[bedir than]

For me it's hard to say. Online, it sure seems that way. Offline, I game and talk about gaming with people as young as 20 and as old as 50 and none of them are happy with what's been coming out. Most have switched over to other systems like Pathfinder 2e or Dungeon World. We have one FLGS and these books are all gathering dust (new Critical Role book being the exception). Even most of the posts here in support of these products seem to be from folks who aren't buying them. So it certainly seems to me there is an issue.

I'm guessing these books are selling well though; I'm not sure to who. My only guess is new players coming into the hobby. Seems to be a pretty crazy gamble to alienate the hardcore gamers to cater to Zoomers and Magic fans in the hopes they stick with it.

Lots of people saying Dragonlance is their way of pleasing the older players, but I'm just not seeing it. Nothing in that clip gave me any nostalgic vibes and it's one of my favorite series.

Locally my two stores can't keep product in stoke, breweries are hosting games, sports coaches are playing the game, complete strangers walk up and ask me about my shirt.
The game is strong right now.