D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[hawkeyefan]

Ok.

If by "target demographic" you mean, well, everyone, then, sure, it's sanitization.

Not quite sure why that seems to be a negative thing then.

Ugh how can it even be a D&D book with no nipples?!??

 

[Retreater]

I acknowledge that this is anecdotal and likely does not reflect the experience most have, but I've used the Reborn template for an evil character once and felt that it meshed splendidly.

I'm glad it worked for you. For what I would want out of a Ravenloft campaign setting would be more akin to the original concept of the setting, where evil would be tempted by the Dark Powers and perhaps lose control of their characters, who could become antagonists later on down the road. You would lose friends, allies, and former party members - not just to injury in battle - but also to their internal battle against their own corruption.
And even though I didn't buy the new book (for $50 retail) and read it thoroughly, I anticipate this isn't the feel of this new iteration. The new Ravenloft feels like a slightly spooky veneer over traditional high fantasy, putting goblins in Halloween costumes. In doing this, it feels less unique, less flavorful.
Is there a sinkhole of evil where Darklords can track down paladins and good clerics as if they're beacons of light? When you use clairvoyance can you see things you aren't meant to see? When you Detect Evil, can you become overwhelmed by the presence and pass out (or worse)? Does it discuss rituals needed to permanently break the curse of lycanthropy?
I don't want a Ravenloft where players are cherry-picking the next coolest warlock build. I want a Ravenloft where the characters (and their players) fear the ruinous powers. Because that's what I was already bringing in my homebrewed conversion of Ravenloft.

 

[Scribe]

Ugh how can it even be a D&D book with no nipples?!??

#freetheni...

wait whats the current trending hashtag, thats not it....

 

[Malmuria]

Not if its an ongoing trend in direction?

What I'm saying is that it groups a variety of different design and artistic decisions under one label in a way that's not helpful. Because we can point out that more recent material has a variety of tones and styles, and go further to point out that older material, too, had a variety of tones and styles, some "silly" or whimsical, but all that's not the point for those criticizing the supposed direction of the game products. Rather, threads discussing alignment, racial asi, the worldviews of Edgar Rice Burroughs, H.P. Lovecraft et al, and so forth get to the actual point more directly.

I dont have a problem with Conan. It seems that 'modern sensibilities' would indicate that I should. Wizards targeting a demographic which finds Conan problematic, is or has or will continue, to sanitize their product to not offend and appeal to that target demographic.

Why not both? Like most companies, wotc is probably trying to appeal to multiple demographics. Being cognizant of appealing to women doesn't mean they've given up on appealing to men, for example.

DIT: And the funny part is, there is a Sword and Sorcery component in the Ravenloft book, as a type of Horror right?

So why didnt Wizards lean into that, show some art in the style associated, really market that as an option.

I think gothic horror is different from sword and sorcery. Still, consider these images. Dark in tone, lots of greys and browns, undead elements, gothic stylings. Are we saying these are not "classic" ravenloft because of the outfits of the female characters??

 

[Malmuria]

One thing I specifically disliked was the player-facing options to play undead PCs, like it's a goal of gaining cool powers. I think this kills the feel of the horror of the setting, just to be a "half vampire."

That's fair, though I think that's a problem of a disjunction between horror as a genre and dnd. It's why adnd has to jump, awkwardly imo, to things like level drain to evoke a sense of "horror."

 

[Greg Benage]

It's why adnd has to jump, awkwardly imo, to things like level drain to evoke a sense of "horror."

Level-drain was brilliant! What better way to evoke the horrors of undeath than the prospect of aimlessly wandering the corridors of unnamed dungeons as a low-level scrub once again?

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't miss chainmail bikini art but not all of the sanitizing has been good imho.

It leaves the game a it blander and less variety imho.

But they want to sell as much as possible things go in cycles. 6E will be different, so will 7E.
I don't want darkness and grit all the damn time and alot of the time it's crap.

 

[Malmuria]

Level-drain was brilliant! What better way to evoke the horrors of undeath than the prospect of aimlessly wandering the corridors of unnamed dungeons as a low-level scrub once again?

In the context of dungeon crawl dnd, yeah it makes sense to play with level and ability drain. But if you are going for gothic or cosmic horror, not sure it’s the best system

 

[Jahydin]

They don't just disagree. They brought receipts. They presented evidence that refutes your claim. That it is your opinion does not shield it from criticism. And speaking as someone who doesn't own any of the books being drawn upon for examples, I can tell you that the argument that you are demonstrably incorrect has been made much more strongly than yours. Opinions can, of course, simply be wrong sometimes. The evidence seems to be pointing in that direction here.

Brought receipts to what? I didn't come here to convince anyone I'm right. You're fighting windmills.

I would really rather not have to go to "ENWorld Court" for every single opinion I post about my subjective feelings please. It's pretty exhausting, especially since it can't even be done nicely or fairly.

Even after all of Ace's posts, I still think modern D&D is childish. Again, not saying it is childish, just that I think it is. If that bothers anyone, it's probably an insecurity issue.

 

[MGibster]

I think gothic horror is different from sword and sorcery. Still, consider these images. Dark in tone, lots of greys and browns, undead elements, gothic stylings. Are we saying these are not "classic" ravenloft because of the outfits of the female characters??

There were two illustrations of women from the original Castle Ravenloft module. I think the art you posted works just fine with classic Ravenloft.

This is Ireena Kolyana standing next to a portrait of Tatiana.

And this one is a random vampire woman.