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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9246829" data-attributes="member: 7035894">Just looking at the DDB data, it is true that a minority of characters are non-spell casters. Only 4/13 classes do not use magic...and that's before taking sub-classes, feats, and multi-class into account. However, it is also true that the more "mundane" classes are overrepresented - they are only 4/13 of the class options, but represent a significantly higher ratio of characters. So I think we can at least say that they more than competitive options, at least in this large but kind of opaque data set.This squares with what I see in running a large number of campaigns, with high turnover in the ones at school, which are mostly beginners. Players mostly choose based on class fantasy - in other words, in general they aren't worried as much about optimization as about their character concept. 5e has done an admirable job of (mostly) balancing the classes so that they are close enough that no one is obviously disadvantaged by their choice; even monk, the consensus weakest class in the current rules, is by no means unplayable or unable to have their moments.I find that a minority of players do focus more on optimization in a serious way as they gain more knowledge of the rules (I think most players optimize at least a little, but I think we know what I mean by serious optimizers - your bugbear pole arm masters and so forth). Yet even there I still see mundane classes getting chosen. For instance, the one experienced player in my current school group is a fairly committed optimizer, and he is playing a fighter. And an Eldritch Knight, at that!If you are focused on doing builds for very high levels and seeing the best possible combinations you can come up with using all 20 levels, then I do think the game is less balanced. But that is such a tiny niche that I don't think you can build the game with it in mind. In the game as it is actually played, class balance is remarkably good while still retaining meaningful differences between classes, which I consider a seriously impressive design feat.</blockquote>

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