Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9251471" data-attributes="member: 22779">Yes, absolutely.  A troll with surprise is going to obliterate a 1st level party.  Yuppers.How about we presume a bit more realistic set up - the two parties, neither with surprise, start a double move away from each other.Of course, let's not forget that in our caster heavy party, they've likely got a familiar or two to back up perception and whatnot.  So, starting an encounter at say, 50 feet?  Seems pretty reasonable.  I dunno about you, but, it's a pretty rare encounter that starts in melee range.  There's typically a round of movement in there.  I've got five chances to beat that troll's initiative, and most of the casters have something that's going to slow it down, if not outright stop it in its tracks.  But, this is a ludicrous example anyway.  It really doesn't matter what the example is.  No matter what, every single time, it never matters.  Any scenario will simply get twisted and turned fifteen different ways in order to "prove" a point.  The point isn't this particular example.  Or this particular spell.  It's the whole thing.  It's the fact that it's actually plausible that a 1st level caster heavy party could beat the troll.  It's the fact that when you have caster heavy parties, they simply take over the campaign to such a huge degree.  They have so many options.  So many choices.  So many things they can do that the DM is forced to rework the campaign in order to make anything an actual challenge.We've talked lots of times about doing exploration.  This is why exploration in 5e doesn't really work for me.  The casters simply bypass nearly everything.  Good grief, the Order of Scribes wizard's Manifest Mind is a permanent (or well, unkillable, needs a dispel magic to be removed and can be brought back with one spell) intangible sensor.  It can walk through walls.  Who needs a scout anymore?  I've got something that can literally walk through walls and never be killed.  Out to a range of 300 feet.  I can see through every door, wall, find every secret door and discover every monster.  All from the front door of the dungeon.Exploration?  What's that?  I might as well just hand the adventure to the player since they're going to know every inch of it before the adventure even starts.</blockquote>

Verification