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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9251567" data-attributes="member: 22779">So, now, here's the question.&nbsp; How much experience should I need to expect before asking to use a 3pp?&nbsp; One campaign?&nbsp; Multiple years?&nbsp; I mean if 3pp are off the table for new DM's, then how long should they wait?&nbsp; What's &quot;sufficiently experienced&quot; in your opinion?See, that's the thing.&nbsp; No matter what, unless you want to play core, vanilla D&amp;D, you're pretty much screwed.&nbsp; Want to use a new class from Kobold Press?&nbsp; Well, you get to wait two years for your DM to be &quot;experienced enough&quot;.&nbsp; Want to play a race from Level Up?&nbsp; Well, guess what?&nbsp; You can't.&nbsp; Your DM just isn't up to snuff and obviously all that 3pp stuff just isn't good enough to be used, so, suck it up buttercup.&nbsp; And you wonder why some of us are pushing for some extra stuff in the DMG or PHB?&nbsp; Or maybe change a bit in the game so our games don't fall to pieces because we're just not quite good enough DM's to anticipate all of the ten thousand things casters can do that will turn our adventures into boring spell fests?&nbsp; I've had suggestions that I should change the effects of spells.&nbsp; Great advice.&nbsp; But, it's a bit late after the fact.&nbsp; Why not fix those spells NOW when we're doing a new revision?Me?&nbsp; I'd LOVE a more streamlined Monster Manual that strips spells out of the creatures.&nbsp; I don't want spell casting critters because they're a HUGE pain to run and prep.&nbsp; But, am I going to get that?&nbsp; Not if that 30% has their way.&nbsp; They're going to kick and scream that it is vitally important that a monster has fifteen different spells listed when the monster is most likely only going to use two or three of them.&nbsp; Because.... world building or verisimilitude or some other made up excuse to ram their preferences down everyone else's throat.But, rolling this back around, my initial comment was that my group was quite different from the demographics being presented here.&nbsp; Which goes a long way towards explaining why I have a very different experience in the game.&nbsp; But, instead of saying, &quot;Hrm, yeah, I could see that.&nbsp; Maybe they could tone down the casters a touch and then if there is a caster heavy group, it wouldn't matter so much,&quot; I get, &quot;Well, Hussar, you're just lying and incompetent.&nbsp; Get Gud&quot;.&nbsp; <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937.png" title="Person shrugging&nbsp; &nbsp; :person_shrugging:" data-shortname=":person_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9251567, member: 22779"] So, now, here's the question. How much experience should I need to expect before asking to use a 3pp? One campaign? Multiple years? I mean if 3pp are off the table for new DM's, then how long should they wait? What's "sufficiently experienced" in your opinion? See, that's the thing. No matter what, unless you want to play core, vanilla D&D, you're pretty much screwed. Want to use a new class from Kobold Press? Well, you get to wait two years for your DM to be "experienced enough". Want to play a race from Level Up? Well, guess what? You can't. Your DM just isn't up to snuff and obviously all that 3pp stuff just isn't good enough to be used, so, suck it up buttercup. And you wonder why some of us are pushing for some extra stuff in the DMG or PHB? Or maybe change a bit in the game so our games don't fall to pieces because we're just not quite good enough DM's to anticipate all of the ten thousand things casters can do that will turn our adventures into boring spell fests? I've had suggestions that I should change the effects of spells. Great advice. But, it's a bit late after the fact. Why not fix those spells NOW when we're doing a new revision? Me? I'd LOVE a more streamlined Monster Manual that strips spells out of the creatures. I don't want spell casting critters because they're a HUGE pain to run and prep. But, am I going to get that? Not if that 30% has their way. They're going to kick and scream that it is vitally important that a monster has fifteen different spells listed when the monster is most likely only going to use two or three of them. Because.... world building or verisimilitude or some other made up excuse to ram their preferences down everyone else's throat. But, rolling this back around, my initial comment was that my group was quite different from the demographics being presented here. Which goes a long way towards explaining why I have a very different experience in the game. But, instead of saying, "Hrm, yeah, I could see that. Maybe they could tone down the casters a touch and then if there is a caster heavy group, it wouldn't matter so much," I get, "Well, Hussar, you're just lying and incompetent. Get Gud". 🤷 [/QUOTE]

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