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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9251908" data-attributes="member: 22779">Umm, [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER], why do you assume that the troll can escape the incredibly long ranged party you've created, every time?&nbsp; Ok, sure, in a scenario where the group is limited to 15 foot sight lines, has no scouts, and the troll surprises them, sure, troll wins.&nbsp; But, outdoors?&nbsp; It's not all that hard to keep the troll in sight while it's trying to run away.&nbsp; And, if the troll has run away, why is it coming back?&nbsp; You keep talking about playing the monster intelligently and not suicidally.&nbsp; The first time it came up for a snack, it gets its ass handed to it.&nbsp; The second time it gets beaten off too.&nbsp; The troll has no idea that the casters might be out of spells.&nbsp; But it's totally realistic for that predator, after being shown that it can be killed by the prey twice, keeps coming back for more?Funny how &quot;I play monsters intelligently&quot; seems to mean, &quot;I play the monsters with the meta game knowledge of exactly what the party can do.&quot;The point was, and [USER=7030563]@ECMO3[/USER] has rather handily demonstrated, a 1st level party can beat the troll.&nbsp; Does it need a bit of help?&nbsp; Sure.&nbsp; Fair enough.&nbsp; But you're forgetting the other side of the coin.&nbsp; The non-caster party dies EVERY time.&nbsp; It never wins.&nbsp; The caster party wins sometimes.&nbsp; Doesn't that demonstrate that the caster party is more powerful?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9251908, member: 22779"] Umm, [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER], why do you assume that the troll can escape the incredibly long ranged party you've created, every time? Ok, sure, in a scenario where the group is limited to 15 foot sight lines, has no scouts, and the troll surprises them, sure, troll wins. But, outdoors? It's not all that hard to keep the troll in sight while it's trying to run away. And, if the troll has run away, why is it coming back? You keep talking about playing the monster intelligently and not suicidally. The first time it came up for a snack, it gets its ass handed to it. The second time it gets beaten off too. The troll has no idea that the casters might be out of spells. But it's totally realistic for that predator, after being shown that it can be killed by the prey twice, keeps coming back for more? Funny how "I play monsters intelligently" seems to mean, "I play the monsters with the meta game knowledge of exactly what the party can do." The point was, and [USER=7030563]@ECMO3[/USER] has rather handily demonstrated, a 1st level party can beat the troll. Does it need a bit of help? Sure. Fair enough. But you're forgetting the other side of the coin. The non-caster party dies EVERY time. It never wins. The caster party wins sometimes. Doesn't that demonstrate that the caster party is more powerful? [/QUOTE]

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