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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9251934" data-attributes="member: 22779">Wow, I didn't know using the standard encounter distances from the DMG was the &quot;best case scenario&quot;.&nbsp; You realize how short 100 feet is right?&nbsp; 100 foot sight lines, even in forest, is not unreasonable.&nbsp; But, again, why would the troll come back?&nbsp; It knows the party can actually kill it.&nbsp; Why not find something a lot easier to eat?&nbsp; Like any reasonable predator?&nbsp; But, sure, if we play our baddies as tactical experts, regardless of their actual natures (since when are trolls tactical?), use all the meta-game knowledge to know when the party is out of spells, stack the encounter every way in favor of the monster, sure, you'll defeat the party every time.&nbsp; Not really a shock there.But, again, you are missing the point.&nbsp; The point isn't that the caster party will probably lose the encounter.&nbsp; Fair enough.&nbsp; It's that the non-caster party will always lose the encounter.&nbsp; They will never win.&nbsp; And, this is the absolute weakest that a caster party will be.&nbsp; It can't be any weaker.&nbsp; Bump the party up to about 7th level, or even worse, 11th level and now they're able to pretty much bypass virtually any challenge you care to throw at them.&nbsp; They just have that many resources to draw on.Which means that you have to start writing your adventures to take the casters into account.&nbsp; Which you already do - liberal use of Forbiddence for example.&nbsp; The only reason you do that is to counter the casters.&nbsp; IOW, the casters dictate the shape of the campaign in a way that the non-casters never can.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9251934, member: 22779"] Wow, I didn't know using the standard encounter distances from the DMG was the "best case scenario". You realize how short 100 feet is right? 100 foot sight lines, even in forest, is not unreasonable. But, again, why would the troll come back? It knows the party can actually kill it. Why not find something a lot easier to eat? Like any reasonable predator? But, sure, if we play our baddies as tactical experts, regardless of their actual natures (since when are trolls tactical?), use all the meta-game knowledge to know when the party is out of spells, stack the encounter every way in favor of the monster, sure, you'll defeat the party every time. Not really a shock there. But, again, you are missing the point. The point isn't that the caster party will probably lose the encounter. Fair enough. It's that the non-caster party will always lose the encounter. They will never win. And, this is the absolute weakest that a caster party will be. It can't be any weaker. Bump the party up to about 7th level, or even worse, 11th level and now they're able to pretty much bypass virtually any challenge you care to throw at them. They just have that many resources to draw on. Which means that you have to start writing your adventures to take the casters into account. Which you already do - liberal use of Forbiddence for example. The only reason you do that is to counter the casters. IOW, the casters dictate the shape of the campaign in a way that the non-casters never can. [/QUOTE]

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