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<blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9253110" data-attributes="member: 7035894">Building on this, I don't see the potential for extreme character optimization as a flaw in 5e. I think it is very much a feature for a certain type of player, so I concur that the real issue is making sure that you are copacetic with your group, which generally requires some give and take.I don't think a complex RPG system exists that doesn't allow for optimization - it's just the nature of having that many moving parts. I think 5e does a remarkable job of keeping the classes fairly balanced while still mostly maintaining distinct class identities. I agree that this breaks down somewhat at very high levels, and particularly with players who focus on optimization. Though I think that if you invite even a serious optimizer like ECMO3 to design an optimized high level group there will be a variety of classes represented.I argue that no perfectly balanced system can exist for a system as complex as D&amp;D5e - aside from the rules themselves, the context will change from setting to setting and DM to DM. That's not to argue that there is no room for improvement - hello 2024 monk - but that we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. 5e is still a very healthy baby.What a weird metaphor to finish with. Oh well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Clint_L, post: 9253110, member: 7035894"] Building on this, I don't see the potential for extreme character optimization as a flaw in 5e. I think it is very much a feature for a certain type of player, so I concur that the real issue is making sure that you are copacetic with your group, which generally requires some give and take. I don't think a complex RPG system exists that doesn't allow for optimization - it's just the nature of having that many moving parts. I think 5e does a remarkable job of keeping the classes fairly balanced while still mostly maintaining distinct class identities. I agree that this breaks down somewhat at very high levels, and particularly with players who focus on optimization. Though I think that if you invite even a serious optimizer like ECMO3 to design an optimized high level group there will be a variety of classes represented. I argue that no perfectly balanced system can exist for a system as complex as D&D5e - aside from the rules themselves, the context will change from setting to setting and DM to DM. That's not to argue that there is no room for improvement - hello 2024 monk - but that we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. 5e is still a very healthy baby. What a weird metaphor to finish with. Oh well. [/QUOTE]

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