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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9253359" data-attributes="member: 87792">But you do accept the point that system matters?I am suggesting that because there is a mechanical reward for the act of stealing things in AD&D 2e then it is encouraging stealing. The game is literally telling you to steal.[ATTACH=full]344820[/ATTACH]But not every TTRPG rewards you for actively obtaining treasure. In a normal RPG you play as a team and are taking part in life threatening behaviours (something you seem to discount). You therefore want everyone to survive. Stealing from your own party rather than sharing the equipment weakens you as a group meaning you are more likely to die. And a rogue with a magic sword does not contribute as much as a fighter does.Meanwhile if the Rogue is rewarded 2XP for every GP obtained, and the fighter's sword is worth 1000GP then the choice as a party isn't between the fighter with a magic sword and the rogue with a magic sword (anyone sensible will pick the meatshield gets the sword) but the Rogue with a sword and 2000XP that no one would have if the fighter had the sword. And given that 2000XP is the difference between level 1 and level 3 it is legitimate for the rogue's player to consider that the party as a whole and they themselves have a better chance of survival with the blade in the hands of themselves as a level 3 rogue than it would be in the hands of a level 1 fighter with only a level 1 rogue in the party.And then another rogue player looks at the game and says "clearly taking everything that isn't nailed down is what the rogue is about. This is a game with a hidden semi-traitor mechanic and individual victory conditions. It's a bit like Betrayal at House on the Hill, BSG, or Shadows over Camelot". Add in players also learning from books (and Dragonlance Kender) so again they think that's what the game is about and you have problems with rogues who steal from the party that are nowhere near as common in other editions. Because contrary to your assertions 2e is not just a generic game but does specific things to encourage this form of bad behaviour.This is a simple and crude example of course.It's not about what is true and what is permitted. It's about what is encouraged. And I know I can trust my players to be adults because I actually look at consequences - which is why there is some PvP but it is kept within the bounds of fun. And if a game were to consistently produce the same bad outcomes (such as rules lawyering) I'd dump that system.</blockquote>

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