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<blockquote data-quote="TheSword" data-source="post: 9253579" data-attributes="member: 6879661">I started in AD&amp;D, I understand your example I just don’t agree with it.Firstly the table doesn’t discuss theft and never did, it just rewarded acquisition of treasure. It doesn’t give a rogue license to steal from the party and more than a fighter had license to beat up other PCs for healing potions. By definition theft benefits the person that’s profiting from it. If your rogues were encouraged to steal from the party it was by the DM and other players accepting the circumstances and not dealing with the behaviour. Not the system. If you think removing treasure awards from rogues stopped pvp theft, then just check how many threads there are for 3e, pathfinder and 5e about the issue - I’ll give you a clue, there are lots. I’ve played in many many campaigns with Paladins. Lawful stupid, bad party selection (necromancers in paladin parties) and chaotic neutral misanthrope PCs are out of game problems projected onto the game. We know because we still see misanthropic PCs and some players who don’t know how to behave in a group dynamic. They crop up here and on other forums all the time.In short your claim that these behaviors are encouraged by system rules and somehow stopped when rules were changed is patently not evidenced by reality.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheSword, post: 9253579, member: 6879661"] I started in AD&D, I understand your example I just don’t agree with it. Firstly the table doesn’t discuss theft and never did, it just rewarded acquisition of treasure. It doesn’t give a rogue license to steal from the party and more than a fighter had license to beat up other PCs for healing potions. By definition theft benefits the person that’s profiting from it. If your rogues were encouraged to steal from the party it was by the DM and other players accepting the circumstances and not dealing with the behaviour. Not the system. If you think removing treasure awards from rogues stopped pvp theft, then just check how many threads there are for 3e, pathfinder and 5e about the issue - I’ll give you a clue, there are lots. I’ve played in many many campaigns with Paladins. Lawful stupid, bad party selection (necromancers in paladin parties) and chaotic neutral misanthrope PCs are out of game problems projected onto the game. We know because we still see misanthropic PCs and some players who don’t know how to behave in a group dynamic. They crop up here and on other forums all the time. In short your claim that these behaviors are encouraged by system rules and somehow stopped when rules were changed is patently not evidenced by reality. [/QUOTE]

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