Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9254564" data-attributes="member: 6790260">No. They're on the "trolls are not equipped with thermoptic camo and noise suppression" camp.You're the one who seems to think that a nine-foot-tall biped would typically go unseen, and unheard, under the canopy of most forests (where brush cover is almost certainly not going to be nine feet tall...) until literally almost on top of a party (within 20').That, to me, is quite clearly the hyperbole.Is it possible for a troll to sneak up on the party in the right conditions? Yes, sure. Those conditions would need to be pretty favorable, e.g. the party is at the edge of the canopy where enough sunlight gets through to allow tall brush/small trees, and the troll needs to know they're there long before they could know it is there, and the troll needs a pretty clever plan of attack to get close enough without making enough sound to alert someone, and whomever is on watch duty needs to fail at their job (or, I guess, the party needs to be foolish enough to not have anyone on watch duty). But yeah, sure, under those conditions it's quite possible.In more general conditions? No, I expect most parties to have a very reasonable chance to spy, or more likely hear, a 9' lumbering biped with weak mental faculties from a reasonable distance away, maybe 40'-50'? They might not know specifically that it is a troll at that point, but the thing is 9' high and probably 4' wide. They'll probably know something is coming.Here's an example of a clear-cut section of forest, where there hasn't been time for the understory plants to swarm into the newly exposed edge. (Pine forest logging area in Norway.)<img src="https://cdn.cid-inc.com/app/uploads/2022/08/29093416/Forest-dynamics-clearcut-1024x640.jpg.webp" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />Note how effectively the only large tree cover is the canopy itself; the understory is nearly empty for all of the space down to ground level. Only a smattering of smaller trees are capable of filling this space, because there isn't enough sunlight to sustain them. Smaller bushes (e.g. huckleberries, at least here in the PNW), ground plants (e.g. ferns), and ground cover (e.g. sorrels) will be the bulk of the below-canopy vegetation, and won't be nearly big enough to conceal a troll that isn't actively hugging the ground to avoid detection. A bear is quite a bit easier to hide in such spaces.Here's a more close-up example. (Ground view from the Hoh Rainforest, Olympic National Park, WA.)<img src="https://m.psecn.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000sJqZobLxydA/s/860/860/Hoh-forest-floor.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />I have little problem believing a party could see a troll coming in these conditions. Yes, visibility is worse than it would be on your hyperbolic example of a salt flat. Yes, there are some opportunities to conceal yourself if you've already gotten the drop on the party and can attack at your convenience. What I'm saying is, I don't give the troll carte blanche to get the drop on the party. These conditions are still open enough that they should, in general, have a chance to be the ones who get the drop on the troll, rather than always being caught by surprise. Most of the time, I would expect neither side to have such a stealth advantage; they will both be aware that something is nearby and prepare for danger.</blockquote>

Verification