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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 9255110" data-attributes="member: 6801845">I don't consider a moose a stealthy apex predator, yet I can speak from personal experience that it is easy to encounter one with less than 30 feet away when hiking in the wilderness.&nbsp; BTW, moose are huge.&nbsp; It doesn't take a creature with a +10 stealth to potentially start a combat at any distance that makes sense for the current environment.I think we can always come up with scenarios to sat &quot;And this is why [insert class/race/build] are weak/balanced/overpowered&quot;.&nbsp; Specific scenarios designed to &quot;prove&quot; whatever we want to support is pretty meaningless.&nbsp; All we do know is that people in 2023 who used DDB chose to play humans more often than any other single race and that they played fighters more often than any other single race.&nbsp; My not-really-serious scenario to prove that human fighters were superior was level 1 human fighters all armed with polearms and the sentinel feat with a troll starting more than 30 feet away.&nbsp; As it closes, the fighters can likely stop it 10 feet away then back up 25 feet so they can repeat every round.&nbsp; Even if it does get close to a fighter, they can just back away even if it provokes an opportunity attack.&nbsp; If it does happen to get a hit in, they have second wind and will have to spend their action withdrawing next round.But it's also a pretty meaningless proof.&nbsp; Optimal build just depends on too many factors like what role you want to fill and will enjoy playing.&nbsp; The only thing that matters is what people enjoy playing.&nbsp; Personally?&nbsp; I like playing fighters, monks, rogues, clerics and, yes, even wizards when I get a chance to play.&nbsp; I'd advise people to play what they want and stop worrying about what everyone else is playing or which class is &quot;optimal&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 9255110, member: 6801845"] I don't consider a moose a stealthy apex predator, yet I can speak from personal experience that it is easy to encounter one with less than 30 feet away when hiking in the wilderness. BTW, moose are huge. It doesn't take a creature with a +10 stealth to potentially start a combat at any distance that makes sense for the current environment. I think we can always come up with scenarios to sat "And this is why [insert class/race/build] are weak/balanced/overpowered". Specific scenarios designed to "prove" whatever we want to support is pretty meaningless. All we do know is that people in 2023 who used DDB chose to play humans more often than any other single race and that they played fighters more often than any other single race. My not-really-serious scenario to prove that human fighters were superior was level 1 human fighters all armed with polearms and the sentinel feat with a troll starting more than 30 feet away. As it closes, the fighters can likely stop it 10 feet away then back up 25 feet so they can repeat every round. Even if it does get close to a fighter, they can just back away even if it provokes an opportunity attack. If it does happen to get a hit in, they have second wind and will have to spend their action withdrawing next round. But it's also a pretty meaningless proof. Optimal build just depends on too many factors like what role you want to fill and will enjoy playing. The only thing that matters is what people enjoy playing. Personally? I like playing fighters, monks, rogues, clerics and, yes, even wizards when I get a chance to play. I'd advise people to play what they want and stop worrying about what everyone else is playing or which class is "optimal". [/QUOTE]

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