D&D 5E (2024) D&D Classes without Subclasses?

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Thanks! Hadn’t heard of BESM nor Anime 5e either. Well… I’ve got my work cut out for me

tl;dr Your best approach, you you choose to go down this path, is to work from the Anime 5e set of rules. It's the "newest" overall and is explicitly geared towards 5e, whereas BESM and Tri-Stat are intended to be generic/supers rules systems. So they might be able to provide a bit of additional context but you'll want Anime 5e as the main source.

Also, pay attention to spells. You may or may not be aware, but in theory the various abilities of classes/monsters are partially CR-costed by the designers of 5e in relation to spells. So while Anime 5e will give you basic costs for a lot of things, some more complicated things you might be able to get at by costing as a spell. But at this point, we're starting to get pretty down in the weeds.

I don't think you need more than the base book but if you did, it'd probably only be the "Monstrum Libri", their name for the Bestiary. You've got a choice of creature cards, or a book. I'd go with whatever is cheaper, since the main point you'd be looking for is monstrous abilities and how they're framed/costed.

Spoiler: Expanded explanation

Hmmm... well, the BESM system has been around for like 30 years; it's on its 4th edition right now. Tri-Stat is a derivative of that system and has been through a number of different editions, depending on the particular game it gets used for. I think BESM 4e came out in 2019 or thereabouts.

Anime 5e is related more to BESM than Tri-Stat and I think it came out around 2021 as well. It actually links back to BESMd20, which itself was a mid-point between BESM 2e and BESM 3e. Opinions on BESMd20 varied, in part because of a reaction against d20 (we're talking like... 2009 or thereabouts) in general and in part because of people assuming "point buy" meant "everything is perfectly balanced in relation to everything else" and the subsequent arguments that would arise from that false premise.

And then there was the issue of the designer Mark MacKinnon; there's a somewhat messy backstory about his original company (Guardians of Order) going bankrupt, why it did, and whether or not he ripped off people (failed to pay them for their work but kept selling products). While he was gone for a while, he started up a new company (Dyskami Publishing) which is responsible for BESM 4e and Anime 5e both.

 

[djotaku]

Nice, I’m intrigued. Hadn’t heard of it yet though I heard very good things about Sanderson’s fiction.

Have you tried the Stormlight Starter Set, and would you recommend it? Or you went straight to the "real books"?

Not sure what's in the starter set - I was a backer so I had the whole thing. If you mean "the First Steps" intro adventure, it's an interesting recommendation. It's a good introduction to the system, but not indicative of how play will proceed. It's kind of like a personality quiz within a TTRPG to help the player decide what Hero and Stormlight paths align with the way they would naturally play.

I've been running Stonewalkers since October-ish. It's a canonical story that takes place I think in the middle book 2 that lets you know some of what was going on in the world that Sanderson didn't talk about in the books. I have some players who are Sanderson super-fans (they listen to podcasts about the books and know everything about Roshar frontwards and backwards) and they are LOVING all the extra worldbuilding and stuff they're learning and the people they are interacting with.

There are lots of Sanderson fans who have never played TTRPGs who are getting into the hobby via this system. If you're already on Enworld, you'll be ahead of the curve by understanding how TTRPGs work. The system borrows from a bunch of other systems / convergent evolution: 3 action economy of 2nd edition Paizo games, rules for cinematic combat and conversations that seem similar to Draw Steel, a plot die that functions like Daggerheart's fear/hope system.

Overall, I enjoy it. Because of the table I have (being huge fans that enjoy the fact that this campaign is canonical), we're not going off the rails all that much. But, technically, you could use the system to do your own Cosmere "fan fiction"

Finally, the "SRD" equivalent is called Plotweaver. It has nothing to do with Cosmere, but brings the tech tree system to anyone who wants to use it.

Re-reading your post, it looks like you've heard of Sanderson, but haven't read Cosmere. It's 100% not necessary, but tons of stuff will be going over your head. IMHO, if I wasn't into Cosmere I would rather play 5e or Paizo games so I wouldn't feel hemmed in by some author's world and the way things are supposed to work in that world.

 

[Silam]

Not sure what's in the starter set - I was a backer so I had the whole thing. If you mean "the First Steps" intro adventure, it's an interesting recommendation. It's a good introduction to the system, but not indicative of how play will proceed. It's kind of like a personality quiz within a TTRPG to help the player decide what Hero and Stormlight paths align with the way they would naturally play.

I've been running Stonewalkers since October-ish. It's a canonical story that takes place I think in the middle book 2 that lets you know some of what was going on in the world that Sanderson didn't talk about in the books. I have some players who are Sanderson super-fans (they listen to podcasts about the books and know everything about Roshar frontwards and backwards) and they are LOVING all the extra worldbuilding and stuff they're learning and the people they are interacting with.

There are lots of Sanderson fans who have never played TTRPGs who are getting into the hobby via this system. If you're already on Enworld, you'll be ahead of the curve by understanding how TTRPGs work. The system borrows from a bunch of other systems / convergent evolution: 3 action economy of 2nd edition Paizo games, rules for cinematic combat and conversations that seem similar to Draw Steel, a plot die that functions like Daggerheart's fear/hope system.

Overall, I enjoy it. Because of the table I have (being huge fans that enjoy the fact that this campaign is canonical), we're not going off the rails all that much. But, technically, you could use the system to do your own Cosmere "fan fiction"

Finally, the "SRD" equivalent is called Plotweaver. It has nothing to do with Cosmere, but brings the tech tree system to anyone who wants to use it.

Re-reading your post, it looks like you've heard of Sanderson, but haven't read Cosmere. It's 100% not necessary, but tons of stuff will be going over your head. IMHO, if I wasn't into Cosmere I would rather play 5e or Paizo games so I wouldn't feel hemmed in by some author's world and the way things are supposed to work in that world.

Thanks for the extra details!

I did wonder how much this could be enjoyed without having read Sanderson (as you guessed). I have the temptation to read it anyhow, because of the good stuff I heard about it. Though if I front load reading the novels I’ll probably never get to the TTRPG … so maybe I’ll jump into both in parallel. Haven’t decided yet.

In any case, I’ll also take a look at Plotweaver. Thanks again!

 

[djotaku]

Thanks for the extra details!

I did wonder how much this could be enjoyed without having read Sanderson (as you guessed). I have the temptation to read it anyhow, because of the good stuff I heard about it. Though if I front load reading the novels I’ll probably never get to the TTRPG … so maybe I’ll jump into both in parallel. Haven’t decided yet.

In any case, I’ll also take a look at Plotweaver. Thanks again!

You're welcome.

If you look at the subreddit, there are definitely people who are saying they have players at the table who haven't read it, but I would be wary of recommending GMing it if you're not familiar with it. Then again, if you get the world guide and everything maybe you can treat it like KP's Midgard or Paizo's Golarian. You haven't read those novels, but you run games in those worlds. (Or at least many people do ) It does have spoilers, though, if you are the type who prefers to read without spoilers.

 

[Silam]

You're welcome.

If you look at the subreddit, there are definitely people who are saying they have players at the table who haven't read it, but I would be wary of recommending GMing it if you're not familiar with it. Then again, if you get the world guide and everything maybe you can treat it like KP's Midgard or Paizo's Golarian. You haven't read those novels, but you run games in those worlds. (Or at least many people do ) It does have spoilers, though, if you are the type who prefers to read without spoilers.

I haven’t decided yet if I care about the spoilers, but I would probably be the one DMing if we tried it out, and I am wary of being out of my depth in a lore-rich setting.

Unless I just take the rules and move it to one of our other settings, which might be fine too…