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[D&D]"Complete" books: worth it?
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<blockquote data-quote="MerricB" data-source="post: 2524964" data-attributes="member: 3586"><p>Here's a brief guide to the changes from DotF -> CD; there are other sources I'll deal with later.</p><p></p><p>CD prestige classes:</p><p></p><p>* Black Flame Zealot</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Blighter</strong> - MotW</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- prereq: BAB +4 added.</p><p>- spellcasting now extends to 9th level spells instead of 6th level</p><p>- blightfire instead of burning hands (similar ability, but stronger)</p><p>- undead wildshape rewritten to 3.5e standards; loses the ability to go incorporeal</p><p>+ Conclusion: 5 or 6 dead levels in druid lead to a much more effective class than the MotW version. </p><p></p><p>* <strong>Church Inquisitor</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant changes: </p><p>- Requirements are made easier (no longer 8 ranks of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana), instead 4 ranks in Spellcraft, Kn(arc) and Kn(relig)</p><p>- Spread out abilities a little more (gains pierce disguise at lvl 4; learn the truth moves from 9th to 10th lvl)</p><p>- Skill points from 2 to 4; a better fit for the range of skills required.</p><p>- Pierce Illusion is now sight rather than touch and mechanics are simplified.</p><p>+ Conclusion: made better</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Consecrated Harrier</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- Requirements have dropped "Profession Lawyer 5 ranks"</p><p>- spell-using now similar to ranger (with some added spells), rather than similar to cleric. 4th level max spells rather than 5th.</p><p>- dispel magic ability strengthened</p><p>- blessing of scripture (effective ranger "favoured enemy") weakened; max +6 instead of +10</p><p>- emotion spell-like ability replaced by crushing despair</p><p>- implacable hunt ability strengthened</p><p>+ Conclusion: relatively the same. mechanics made more coherent.</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Contemplative</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- Divine wholeness strengthened</p><p>- Divine Soul strengthened</p><p>- Mystic Union DR made in line with 3.5e rules (from 20/+1 to 10/magic)</p><p>- no prestige domains; just gains bonus domains instead</p><p>+ Conclusion: mostly the same, but slightly better</p><p></p><p>* Divine Crusader</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Divine Oracle</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- Scry skill requirements gone; instead changed to Knowledge (religion) and ability to cast divine divination spells.</p><p>- gains Trap Sense (to +3) instead of to +1</p><p>+ Conclusion: mostly the same</p><p></p><p>* Entropomancer</p><p>* Evangelist</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Geomancer</strong> - MotW</p><p>No Significant changes. (Yes, they updated the class. Yes, they accidently left in Scry in the skills - but fixed the rest. No, I don't think it needed changing).</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Holy Liberator</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- Sense Motive 5 ranks added to requirements</p><p>- Spell list slightly changed (now Paladin + bonus spells instead of separate list)</p><p>- loses resist enchantment at 1st level; keeps immunity to charm at 3rd level and now provides aura of resolve (+4 saves vs charm) to allies</p><p>- smite evil moved from 2nd to 1st level, may use more than 1/day at high levels.</p><p>- loses turn undead</p><p>- break enchantment ability instead of subversion; made stronger</p><p>- gains remove fatigue</p><p>+ Conclusion: made mechanically more coherent and abilities better spread over levels.</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Hospitaler</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- Prereqs: BAB +5 instead of +4; must be able to cast 1st level divine spells added</p><p>- Spell-use now 7/10 instead of 10/10</p><p>- loss of Turn Undead ability</p><p>- Remove Disease improves to 2/week.</p><p>+ Conclusion: thankfully weakened! (Full BAB + d10 HD + full Spellcasting + Turn Undead made it too good for pure clerics)</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Pious Templar</strong> - DotF (was Templar)</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- pre-reqs: Know Religion 8->4 ranks; no Endurance, add True Believer</p><p>- some moving about of abilities (Weapon Spec from 1st to 3rd), etc.</p><p>- abilities better integrated with those of paladin</p><p>+ Conclusion: mostly similar.</p><p></p><p>* Radiant Servant of Pelor</p><p>* Rainbow Servant</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Sacred Exorcist</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- Pre-reqs swapped (now Know planes 10 rnks, relig 7 ranks instead of the other way around)</p><p>- Exorcism regular ability instead of prestige domain</p><p>- Chosen foe gained slightly later (3rd/6th/9th rather than 1st/4th/7th)</p><p>- loses Extra Turning bumps</p><p>- gains Holy Aura 1/day at 8th</p><p>+ Conclusion: very similar, slightly weaker.</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Sacred Fist</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant Changes:</p><p>- Pre-reqs: Know Religion 8r (added); feats: Alertness dropped; added Combat Casting + Stunning Fist</p><p>- gains spellcasting progression 8/10 instead of paladin-like spell progression</p><p>- loses bonus domain</p><p>- unarmed damage stacks with monk's rather than using own table</p><p>- gains fast movement ability (to +30 ft)</p><p>- loses flurry attack, magic unarmed attack, evasion, combat casting, uncanny dodge, blindsight, no shadow blows</p><p>- gains sacred flame earlier and may use 2/day at high levels</p><p>- gains blindsense 10' (6th)</p><p>- inner armour now grants Spell Resistance 25 instead of Spell Resistance 10(!!!)</p><p>+ Conclusion: integrated better with monk and cleric, a thorough overhaul</p><p></p><p>* Seeker of the Misty Isle</p><p>* Shining Blade of Heironeous</p><p>* Stormlord</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Temple Raider of Olidammara</strong> - S&S</p><p>Significant Changes:</p><p>* Uncanny Dodge (+1 against traps) -> Trap Sense (eventually +4)</p><p>* Spell-use loses extra domain spells</p><p>* Gains Luck domain at 10th level</p><p>* Gains Skill Mastery at 9th level</p><p>* Loses Save bonus</p><p>+ Conclusion: more in line with other PrC and 3.5e rogue abilities. Minor changes.</p><p></p><p>* Ur-Priest</p><p>* Void Disciple</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Warpriest</strong> - DotF</p><p>Significant changes:</p><p>- Prereq: Diplomacy from 5 to 8 ranks; Leadership dropped</p><p>- Hit die d10 from d8</p><p>- Gains Turn Undead</p><p>- Loses bonus domain at 4th level</p><p>- Some abilities moved 1 level</p><p>+ Conclusion: very similar.</p><p></p><p>Cheers!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MerricB, post: 2524964, member: 3586"] Here's a brief guide to the changes from DotF -> CD; there are other sources I'll deal with later. CD prestige classes: * Black Flame Zealot * [b]Blighter[/b] - MotW Significant changes: - prereq: BAB +4 added. - spellcasting now extends to 9th level spells instead of 6th level - blightfire instead of burning hands (similar ability, but stronger) - undead wildshape rewritten to 3.5e standards; loses the ability to go incorporeal + Conclusion: 5 or 6 dead levels in druid lead to a much more effective class than the MotW version. * [b]Church Inquisitor[/b] - DotF Significant changes: - Requirements are made easier (no longer 8 ranks of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana), instead 4 ranks in Spellcraft, Kn(arc) and Kn(relig) - Spread out abilities a little more (gains pierce disguise at lvl 4; learn the truth moves from 9th to 10th lvl) - Skill points from 2 to 4; a better fit for the range of skills required. - Pierce Illusion is now sight rather than touch and mechanics are simplified. + Conclusion: made better * [b]Consecrated Harrier[/b] - DotF Significant changes: - Requirements have dropped "Profession Lawyer 5 ranks" - spell-using now similar to ranger (with some added spells), rather than similar to cleric. 4th level max spells rather than 5th. - dispel magic ability strengthened - blessing of scripture (effective ranger "favoured enemy") weakened; max +6 instead of +10 - emotion spell-like ability replaced by crushing despair - implacable hunt ability strengthened + Conclusion: relatively the same. mechanics made more coherent. * [b]Contemplative[/b] - DotF Significant changes: - Divine wholeness strengthened - Divine Soul strengthened - Mystic Union DR made in line with 3.5e rules (from 20/+1 to 10/magic) - no prestige domains; just gains bonus domains instead + Conclusion: mostly the same, but slightly better * Divine Crusader * [b]Divine Oracle[/b] - DotF Significant changes: - Scry skill requirements gone; instead changed to Knowledge (religion) and ability to cast divine divination spells. - gains Trap Sense (to +3) instead of to +1 + Conclusion: mostly the same * Entropomancer * Evangelist * [b]Geomancer[/b] - MotW No Significant changes. (Yes, they updated the class. Yes, they accidently left in Scry in the skills - but fixed the rest. No, I don't think it needed changing). * [b]Holy Liberator[/b] - DotF Significant changes: - Sense Motive 5 ranks added to requirements - Spell list slightly changed (now Paladin + bonus spells instead of separate list) - loses resist enchantment at 1st level; keeps immunity to charm at 3rd level and now provides aura of resolve (+4 saves vs charm) to allies - smite evil moved from 2nd to 1st level, may use more than 1/day at high levels. - loses turn undead - break enchantment ability instead of subversion; made stronger - gains remove fatigue + Conclusion: made mechanically more coherent and abilities better spread over levels. * [b]Hospitaler[/b] - DotF Significant changes: - Prereqs: BAB +5 instead of +4; must be able to cast 1st level divine spells added - Spell-use now 7/10 instead of 10/10 - loss of Turn Undead ability - Remove Disease improves to 2/week. + Conclusion: thankfully weakened! (Full BAB + d10 HD + full Spellcasting + Turn Undead made it too good for pure clerics) * [b]Pious Templar[/b] - DotF (was Templar) Significant changes: - pre-reqs: Know Religion 8->4 ranks; no Endurance, add True Believer - some moving about of abilities (Weapon Spec from 1st to 3rd), etc. - abilities better integrated with those of paladin + Conclusion: mostly similar. * Radiant Servant of Pelor * Rainbow Servant * [b]Sacred Exorcist[/b] - DotF Significant changes: - Pre-reqs swapped (now Know planes 10 rnks, relig 7 ranks instead of the other way around) - Exorcism regular ability instead of prestige domain - Chosen foe gained slightly later (3rd/6th/9th rather than 1st/4th/7th) - loses Extra Turning bumps - gains Holy Aura 1/day at 8th + Conclusion: very similar, slightly weaker. * [b]Sacred Fist[/b] - DotF Significant Changes: - Pre-reqs: Know Religion 8r (added); feats: Alertness dropped; added Combat Casting + Stunning Fist - gains spellcasting progression 8/10 instead of paladin-like spell progression - loses bonus domain - unarmed damage stacks with monk's rather than using own table - gains fast movement ability (to +30 ft) - loses flurry attack, magic unarmed attack, evasion, combat casting, uncanny dodge, blindsight, no shadow blows - gains sacred flame earlier and may use 2/day at high levels - gains blindsense 10' (6th) - inner armour now grants Spell Resistance 25 instead of Spell Resistance 10(!!!) + Conclusion: integrated better with monk and cleric, a thorough overhaul * Seeker of the Misty Isle * Shining Blade of Heironeous * Stormlord * [b]Temple Raider of Olidammara[/b] - S&S Significant Changes: * Uncanny Dodge (+1 against traps) -> Trap Sense (eventually +4) * Spell-use loses extra domain spells * Gains Luck domain at 10th level * Gains Skill Mastery at 9th level * Loses Save bonus + Conclusion: more in line with other PrC and 3.5e rogue abilities. Minor changes. * Ur-Priest * Void Disciple * [b]Warpriest[/b] - DotF Significant changes: - Prereq: Diplomacy from 5 to 8 ranks; Leadership dropped - Hit die d10 from d8 - Gains Turn Undead - Loses bonus domain at 4th level - Some abilities moved 1 level + Conclusion: very similar. Cheers! [/QUOTE]
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