D&D Economics

[evanger]

I was wondering how many DMs out there stick to the rules about treasure resale value: i.e. the PCs get only half market value when selling loot. (PHB 112)

Personally, I am against it because it forces me to "seed" the treasure I give them with things they want (rather than random items of curiosity, etc.). If they can't use (or don't want to keep) a magical item they find, they face a huge financial loss when selling it, screwing up the average wealth per level, etc.

My house rule is that all "used" mundane items are sold for half their market value, but magical items always go for full price. <What's to keep intrepid PCs from opening their own store selling their treasure for full price to other adventurers, anyway?>
This tends to make the PCs keep a small percentage of cool items they find, but usually go to town and liquidate the loot and divide up the spoils.

Maybe I'm missing something; comments, suggestions?

 

[Arc]

Well, think of it this way: Do you want your players to use what you give them? Because if they can customize their equipment, there's really no use for giving out magical items, except ones that are extremely relevant in the short term.

In responce to characters opening a shop: Magic item shops have a rather low turnaround, if you think about it. Most items are going to stay in inventory for some time before a buyer comes forth, and expenses related to the shop increase with the value of goods sold. If you're carrying items whose net value is in the 100s of thousands of gold pieces, then your shop has a nice, big red sign pointing at it saying "Steal from me!"

 

[Crothian]

I totally threw that system out the window. PCs can sell items all they want, they may get more then its worth or much less. There are too many factors that can derimine the cost and I've found that unting down buyers and negotiating prices to be great role playing experiences and really allows players to feel they have power and choices over what they do.

 

[Spatzimaus]

I'll repost the short, short version of the system we use:

STEP 1: Take 250, divide it by the buyer's CHA (minimum CHA of 5, which we refer to as the "ugly threshold"). Let's call this X. Round to a convenient number, say the nearest 5 or 10.
STEP 2: Add a whole bunch of rules for tweaking X based on race, gender, social status, Diplomacy skill, faction affiliation, local economy, good roleplaying... you get the idea. Most of these numbers can be guesstimated, if not ignored outright.
STEP 3A: When selling an item, the merchant is willing to accept (100+X)% of the appraised value.
STEP 3B: When buying an item, the merchant is willing to pay (100-X)% of the appraised value.

So, all other factors aside, for a customer with CHA 10 a merchant is willing to pay 75% of the item's value, and charges you 125%. That, right there, provides the profit margin for players to sell crafted items without screwing up your economy, and provides a tangible benefit for high CHA.

This price isn't his opening bargaining position, it's the outcome of a haggling session. If the player wants to roleplay it, start at 50%/150% and haggle away.

It's worked great so far, although it really helps to have a calculator around if you can't do math in your head.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'll repost the short, short version of the system we use:

STEP 1: Take 250, divide it by the buyer's CHA (minimum CHA of 5, which we refer to as the "ugly threshold").

Whats the need for an ugly threshold? Is it really that much of a problem if someone pulls off a charisma of (say) 3, and ends up selling all his gear for 17% of it's value?

 

[Archer]

What if they have a cha of 1 or 2, do they sell at -25% or -150% of the item's value? It doesn't matter because the person with the highest CHA will do all the buying and selling.

 

[S'mon]

I use the wealth by level table as a guide rather than a straitjacket. My players' PCs fight mostly NPCs, so they get quite a lot of loot (even though my world is lower magic than standard). They can sell most stuff at 1/2 DMG value, but good gather information rolls can net them more than that, typically up to around 3/4 DMG value, more in some cases. After all, a Wizard who makes items to order is selling them for DMG value (or more) so someone must be willing to pay that amount.

Buying items though, unless they have a good relationship with the seller they're likely to pay x2 to x4 DMG value.

I basically look at what's plausible in the local economy rather than as an abstract exercise in handing out mandated wealth-by-level. If it ends up that the PCs have something approximating the regular wealth by level table, that's good.

 

[nsruf]

<What's to keep intrepid PCs from opening their own store selling their treasure for full price to other adventurers, anyway?>

Time and money

First, running an operation like that is a full-time job, nothing you do for a few days or hours in between adventures. You also need to build up trust in your customer base, which will take additional time.

But the main reason this won't work easily is lack of stock: stores can charge full price because they have the things available which the customer wants and is specifically looking for. Just offering a ragtag collection of items you happen to have found doesn't cut it. Sure, an enchanter could go and build up a stock of items which are in demand, but again this takes time, money, and probably more XP than the character is willing to sacrifice.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Archer: see the "ugly threshold" part of the process.

Whats the need for an ugly threshold? Is it really that much of a problem if someone pulls off a charisma of (say) 3, and ends up selling all his gear for 17% of it's value?

The concept is like this: if an item is worth 100, the merchant's opening price is 150. It's the sticker price.
As you haggle, he slowly decreases his price while your offer raises, until the two meet. How fast they decrease/raise depends on your CHA; at CHA 10 you give ground equally and meet at a price of 125, but if you had a CHA of 20 he might be far more willing to drop his price quickly, resulting in a price of 112.5.

When selling an item, it's the same in reverse; his initial offer will be 50% before you even start haggling.

With CHA 5, he doesn't budge from his initial prices (X=50). If your CHA was less than 5, you're always paying sticker price, assuming he even talks to you at all.
Part of the reason to cap it is that many of the factors I mentioned in step 2 (race, especially) actually are added/subtracted from your CHA in step 1, so it's actually possible to end up with a negative CHA. That's bad for math, so I cap it at a minimum.

 

[Gregor]

I would generally just let the players role-play selling the equipment off. If they want to bluff the shopkeep about the weapon's abilities or sweet talk them about its worth and the keep falls for it....well then the PCs will get more gold for the item.

Cheers,