D&D 3E/3.5 3.5e/PF/OGL Low-Magic Campaign Resources and Ideas

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
The party never ended. 3.0/3.5e/OGL was the best that ever was if for no other reason than the sheer amount of 3rd-party material available for it with alternate rulesets and countless ways to tweak things. There were books for every possible flavor, from running tournaments with jousts and games like dwarf-toss to building fully fleshed-out medieval economies.

Probably the best-suited edition for running/building low-magic worlds and campaigns, imho.
The sheer amount of tweaking that can be done to the d20 System (which I tend to use as a shorthand for D&D 3.X and d20 Modern/Future/Past and PF1) via third-party products is truly incredible (and is part of why I continue to take such a strong stance on the OGL; it's not just about the 5E SRD). Particularly since there's still great stuff coming out even after both WotC and Paizo have moved on from the system. The small publishers are not only keeping the system alive, they're still breaking new ground!

Several months ago, I picked up Azoth Games' Akashic Expansions: Tai Lin. I'm not even that big into the akashic powers material, but I snatched that one up because it included new rules for ki that I loved, such as making it "aspected" in terms of having your ki be "fire" or "water" or "evil" in nature, etc., all with mechanical weight in the system. It was so evocative!

I'm trying to remember another, much older, supplement that let you use Sense Motive in place of Perception to locate hidden enemies (but I think only if they were hostile, as per the attitude chart for the Diplomacy skill), in a clear reference to the old "you think you can hide when you radiate such strong killing intent?" trope. It was brilliant enough that I've remembered it years later.
 

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_Michael_

Explorer
I would love to incorporate all this stuff in my own campaign world in one massive tome, but I think, even under OGL rules, that would require me seeking permission to reprint specific portions, right? Like, if I included certain prestige classes, feats, skills, and spells, could I get away with a bibliography and footnotes? Could I tweak the flavor text? My goal is to put out a tome the size of the old-school Warhammer books (you know the type--the ones that were the size of a New York Metro phonebook) with everything in it needed for, and geared to, running a low-magic campaign.

Also, just picked up three more books from DTRPG! Variant Multiclassing Revisited, Open Gaming #3, and Into the Breach: The Forgotten Classes.
 

Voadam

Legend
I would love to incorporate all this stuff in my own campaign world in one massive tome, but I think, even under OGL rules, that would require me seeking permission to reprint specific portions, right? Like, if I included certain prestige classes, feats, skills, and spells, could I get away with a bibliography and footnotes? Could I tweak the flavor text? My goal is to put out a tome the size of the old-school Warhammer books (you know the type--the ones that were the size of a New York Metro phonebook) with everything in it needed for, and geared to, running a low-magic campaign.

Also, just picked up three more books from DTRPG! Variant Multiclassing Revisited, Open Gaming #3, and Into the Breach: The Forgotten Classes.
To put it out as OGL you would have to be careful about what specific elements were released in older products as OGC versus PI versus not designated at all and get permissions for some nonOGC stuff. OGC products vary widely from 100% OGC to crippled OGC where the names of rules elements are declared PI.

To create a compilation just for your own group is different.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
I would love to incorporate all this stuff in my own campaign world in one massive tome, but I think, even under OGL rules, that would require me seeking permission to reprint specific portions, right? Like, if I included certain prestige classes, feats, skills, and spells, could I get away with a bibliography and footnotes? Could I tweak the flavor text? My goal is to put out a tome the size of the old-school Warhammer books (you know the type--the ones that were the size of a New York Metro phonebook) with everything in it needed for, and geared to, running a low-magic campaign.

Also, just picked up three more books from DTRPG! Variant Multiclassing Revisited, Open Gaming #3, and Into the Breach: The Forgotten Classes.
@Voadam has the right of it. If you want to publish things (even if you put them out as a free product or a publicly-available website) you'd want to make sure to follow the rules of Open Game Content and Product Identity for each product you draw from.

But just making a big document of rules for your own campaign setting, that's not something you'd need to worry about.
 

_Michael_

Explorer
I'd definitely do my due diligence in reaching out to get permissions as it's not my intent to step on anyone's toes. If I couldn't, then I would just move on and try to create my own stuff. Some of them, I think, won't be a problem as a lot of the people on DTRPG are pretty nice and they usually have blurbs in their works about "If you wanna use this, just shoot me an email!" It's the bigger companies like WotC that I'm going to have to be careful with.

Why no one has ever seemingly put out a quality low-magic campaign world is beyond me when Lord of the Rings and other such low magic settings are so popular. There are so many other ways to achieve cool effects in-game that magic is really just a background issue. The other issue, I think, is how most campaigns sort of devolve into Monty Haul status, but charging double or more for item creation should address that.
 

Voadam

Legend
Thieves World from Green Ronin seemed a lower than baseline magic setting to me in the d20 era with a bunch lower power classes for the world.

Not available in pdf any more though.
 

The Sigil

Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
A bit off-topic, but I just wanted to say that I absolutely loved Buy the Numbers. Unless I'm misremembering, it was the first product to turn the d20 System's class-level progression into a point-buy system, and was quite revolutionary in that regard.
Thank you, Alzrius! It's been a while but I think my motivation there was a combination of wanting to figure out how to get around the problem of "multiclassing dips for just one ability" but also to give those that publishers that designed Prestige Classes some guardrails to make sure that they were all approximately of the same power level (and thus fight power creep).

To put it out as OGL you would have to be careful about what specific elements were released in older products as OGC versus PI versus not designated at all and get permissions for some nonOGC stuff. OGC products vary widely from 100% OGC to crippled OGC where the names of rules elements are declared PI.

To create a compilation just for your own group is different.
Voadam has it right here... if you're creating a compilation just for your own table, you probably don't need the OGL and it's likely to fall under "Fair Use" doctrine in the US or similar doctrines in other countries (IANAL, TINLA).

Worth noting if you plan to compile stuff into a document that DOES rely on the OGL is that you'll want to pay special attention to your sources to make sure (1) their designation of OGC is crystal clear and (2) the stuff you want to use is OGC.

To use the Enichiridion of Treasures and Objects D'Art as an example, you'll note the Product Identity claims are very narrow and specifically called out (basically my own name, the name of my products and product lines, and the name of my imprint plus similar notations for those entities whose permission I sought to use their Product Identity, usually in crediting their work - Wulf Ratbane of Bad Axe Games was always gracious in this regard) - and otherwise "all text" (but not images since I didn't own the copyright on those and couldn't release them). So for all intents and purposes, all of the text in the work is free for your use to remix with the OGL (except my name). Enjoy!

Tangent/Rant:

I would contrast this clarity in PI declarations that include phrases like "all proper names of spells except for those derived from other OGC sources" (how am I to know/prove which spells were derived from other OGC sources and which were not?) - and by claiming the names of spells, it becomes impossible to re-use the spells in another work without renaming them (which basically forces me to divorce them from being recognizable as your content) - while I get you might want to claim "proper names of NPCs" to protect that intellectual property, claiming a spell name like "Iron Spikes" so if I reprint it I have to call it "Steel Points" and only the most careful readers are going to connect my reprint to your "Iron Spikes" ... seems seems pretty silly. I frequently made purchasing decisions based on a company's track record with their OGC/PI declarations - if I bought from a company and discovered they "crippled" their OGC, I never bought from them again. Similarly, I bought books I wasn't necessarily interested in from companies that had generous OGC declarations, because of the promise I'd have an easy time remixing them if I was ever interested in the material.

I don't have any hard evidence of this, but I'm convinced that unclear declarations (which Voadam refers to as "crippled OGC" - and it's possible I used that same term 20+ years ago on OGF-L, as I agree with the characterization) generally came out of one of two places:
1. Folks that didn't really believe in the concept of the OGL and wanted to deny others the ability to piggyback off their own OGC (they may have believed in it enough to want to use others' OGC, but not grant that same right to use theirs to the next guy - I could call this group those that used the OGL in bad faith as they wanted the benefits but not the costs)
2. Folks who handed the OGL to their lawyers, and for which the lawyers decided, "this is a clause we can use to satisfy the OGL which doesn't require us to do any additional work figuring out what should be OGC and what should not" (over the years, I have come to the conclusion that this was probably the reason most publishers used unclear declarations).

In other words, I believe most bad OGC declarations came from a place of either "malice" or "laziness" and I think "laziness" is most often the answer... spending extra time highlighting your PI or making it crystal clear what is OGC and what is not will probably not sell even one more copy of your product, and it's extra time and work you have to pay for, so there's no business incentive to do it.

/End Rant

Also, I'm probably not the typical "business man" - my goal when I wrote 3E/3.5E supplements years ago was threefold (approximately in order of importance):

1. Give people fun stuff to use at their tables
2. Use my hobby (RPGs) to finance itself (I was newly married at the time and my agreement with my wife was that my RPG habit would have to be fully funded by my RPG habit).
3. Fill niches I found were lacking in other published products at the time that I though I could do better

So because of #3, there were several products I started and abandoned because someone else did it better. Because #1 trumped #2 (i.e., I wanted to get material out there more than I wanted money), once the money got to be almost nothing (as it does for any product over time; you get a large bump initially which then turns into a long tail), I reduced the price of all of the products to "free" because it didn't really cost me anything - I wasn't making appreciable sales any more, so why not turn them loose on the world? (What I didn't want is for my works to become unavailable because of copyright funkiness, and while of course DriveThruRPG is going to shut down some day and at that point it will become more difficult to get my stuff, that day has not yet come).
 

The Sigil

Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
Thieves World from Green Ronin seemed a lower than baseline magic setting to me in the d20 era with a bunch lower power classes for the world.

Not available in pdf any more though.
And this is what I wanted to avoid, which is why I made my stuff free. I have several out-of-print physical books (mostly not RPGs) that were very hard to acquire and I think copyright orphaning is a very real problem in the world and we need to figure out how to fix that problem in copyright law, but that's a topic for another thread entirely.
 

_Michael_

Explorer
Thieves World from Green Ronin seemed a lower than baseline magic setting to me in the d20 era with a bunch lower power classes for the world.

Not available in pdf any more though.
I found one site (I won't mention) that has downloadable copies, but I really feel this deprives Green Ronin of their profit for producing such cool works. I'll probably end up buying a copy through DTRPG at some point. I just picked up a copy of the Buy the Numbers from DTRPG, and I'm looking forward to digging into it right after I finish with Enchiridion of Treasures and Objects d'Art.

As to the points @The Sigil made, if I ever get it to the point where I can publish it, I want to do so in a way that fosters expansion and collaboration within the OGL so that it can grow organically much the way the 3.x third party material did. Even if not required because of OGL legalese, I would still probably include a bibliography with footnotation and side bars so that I can bring attention to all the work that came before and helped contribute to creating something cool. Whether or not I ever get to that point with my own stuff is a matter of future debate, but I have not yet reached that point. The only reason I'm using 3.5e is because of its ease of tweaking and altering to suit my needs, though I would love to take a shot at creating my own unique system that would be something akin to a mashup of the best that 3.5e had to offer mixed with Friday Night Firefight/Interlok that was used in Cyberpunk's original system.

I never want to be one of those who is selfish with their material or tries to slyly steal from others. I believe I have a world that is on par with Faerûn or Krynn in terms of detail and richness of stories, and I believe the time has come for low-magic worlds to make their mark as literally everything being put out by WotC and others like Pathfinder's Golarion is all high-magic that usually devolves into Monty Haul campaigns.
 

The Sigil

Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
I just picked up a copy of the Buy the Numbers from DTRPG, and I'm looking forward to digging into it right after I finish with Enchiridion of Treasures and Objects d'Art.
Probably goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway...

Use what you want from my stuff, ignore what you don't, and if I published stuff you think is stupid... you're probably right. I'm not offended if you think some of my stuff is bad. Use what you find useful, ignore the rest.
 

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