D&D 3E/3.5 ISO Help Designing A Nightmarish Creature

Whenever I would design 3e creatures (which I haven't done in years), I would look for a published monster with roughly the same shtick that I wanted my monster to do. And steal it.

So, if you want a monster that dominates others and controls them, I'd look for monsters that do that. What springs to mind is the 3e Vampire template.

Dominate (Su): A vampire can crush an opponent’s will just by looking onto his or her eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack, except that the vampire must use a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire’s influence as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 12th). The ability has a range of 30 feet.

You can flavor that however you want. Remove the "similar to a gaze attack" piece. Put different limitations on it, like the Gloomfetch has to be physically attached to the target.

Dominate person (the referenced spell) lasts 1 day per level, so that is plenty long for the Gloomfetch to start the process. Plus on day N-1 you can give a command like "don't resist my next dominate person" and then re-apply it.

For the un-attached Gloomfetch being camouflaged like an octopus, let's see what 3e's Giant Octopus has to say.

Skills: A giant octopus can change colors, giving it a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks. A giant octopus also can squeeze and contort its body, giving it a +10 racial bonus on Escape Artist checks. A giant octopus has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

So the color-changing camouflage is being modeled by a +4 racial bonus to Hide checks. (And the Giant Octopus already has Hide+12, so +16 when it changes colors.) You also get some rules for how it can squeeze through places due to being a freaky slime blob with no internal organs.

There is no monster in 3e that does "attach to your head and drive you around like a puppet while you see through its eyes". But when I think of monsters that attach themselves to you, I think of the Stirge. So let's see how 3e models the bat-mosquito's tenaciousness.

Attach (Ex): If a stirge hits with a touch attack, it uses its eight pincers to latch onto the opponent’s body. An attached stirge is effectively grappling its prey. The stirge loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and has an AC of 12, but holds on with great tenacity. Stirges have a +12 racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).

An attached stirge can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself. To remove an attached stirge through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the stirge.

Here we find the most evil of all possible monsters: the one that makes you look up the Grapple rules. Truly horrific. But jokes aside, the Stirge gets a giant +12 bonus to Grapple checks, so good luck getting that thing off unless you yourself are an expert Grappler and/or really, really strong.

Anyway that is how I would build a 3e monster, mechanically. Steal.
 

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Whenever I would design 3e creatures (which I haven't done in years), I would look for a published monster with roughly the same shtick that I wanted my monster to do. And steal it.

So, if you want a monster that dominates others and controls them, I'd look for monsters that do that. What springs to mind is the 3e Vampire template.



You can flavor that however you want. Remove the "similar to a gaze attack" piece. Put different limitations on it, like the Gloomfetch has to be physically attached to the target.

Dominate person (the referenced spell) lasts 1 day per level, so that is plenty long for the Gloomfetch to start the process. Plus on day N-1 you can give a command like "don't resist my next dominate person" and then re-apply it.

For the un-attached Gloomfetch being camouflaged like an octopus, let's see what 3e's Giant Octopus has to say.



So the color-changing camouflage is being modeled by a +4 racial bonus to Hide checks. (And the Giant Octopus already has Hide+12, so +16 when it changes colors.) You also get some rules for how it can squeeze through places due to being a freaky slime blob with no internal organs.

There is no monster in 3e that does "attach to your head and drive you around like a puppet while you see through its eyes". But when I think of monsters that attach themselves to you, I think of the Stirge. So let's see how 3e models the bat-mosquito's tenaciousness.



Here we find the most evil of all possible monsters: the one that makes you look up the Grapple rules. Truly horrific. But jokes aside, the Stirge gets a giant +12 bonus to Grapple checks, so good luck getting that thing off unless you yourself are an expert Grappler and/or really, really strong.

Anyway that is how I would build a 3e monster, mechanically. Steal.
Excellent comment!

So many questions to follow up with as I pick your brain! I was sort of cribbing off the Mind Flayer, while making it slightly less powerful, but the other points about using abilities from the various monsters is well-taken.

Is Dominate the best route to go? I'm assuming it's still supernatural because even though the control is exerted through a combination of neurochemical inducement and telepathy. Also, is the time the gloomfetch may remain attached at one hour per HD too little? Is one day per HD too much? I ask because they have an entire culture built around using bipedal humanoids basically as tools to build their city and maintain their civilization, going so far as to selectively breed humanoids for docility and other traits (with a resultant decrease in intelligence and volition since they became dependent upon the gloomfetches), similar to how the Martian Overlords used Rykors (headless human bodies) to ride around on in Chessmen of Mars. Are the abilities okay? Too little? Too much? Should I adjust the HD? Change it to an aberration instead of magical beast? I think for the most part it's okay, but if there's any suggestions along these lines, I'd be happy to hear them.

I think the ability for the humanoid to see through the eyes of the gloomfetch would be more like, what the gloomfetch sees it relays to the humanoid through the telepathic bond, not that the humanoid is directly observing, so what it sees is likely colored by the biases of the gloomfetch. I also had some ideas about how they could breathe underwater and impart that ability to the humanoid while attached, protecting them from drowning, allowing them to extend their city into and under the waters around it.

One of my friends pointed out that this was nearly epic-level in terms of power, but my response was, "Yeah, and so is the Mind Flayer." They don't just show up unless it's planned (or your GM really, really wants your character dead), and it's meant to be the stuff of nightmares. I specifically don't want them to be as expansionist and malevolent as mind flayers--they don't use torture, and don't specifically seek to use pain as an inducement. They engage in trade with other evil creatures simply because those are the only ones willing to overlook their rather horrifying nature, but they otherwise protect their thralls and don't just waste them as mind flayers would by sending them out to die by the score. That's why I was leaning more towards a lawful neutral alignment, or at worst, lawful evil.

All good stuff I'm going to incorporate in and update the thread later with the adjusted stat block.
 

One of the fundamental tenets of 3e, that was dropped hard in 4e, and (I think?) somewhat in 5e -- is that the rules elements simulate reality. (In the GNS simulationist sense.)

So, you're trying to build a 3e monster the simulationist way. Which requires assembling rules elements in a logical fashion that would represent reality. (Well, game reality.)

As opposed to the 4e monster building way which was, think of what you want the monster to do; then it just does that. (And you apply some math to attacks / damage / etc. but you're not required to simulate game-reality.)

Back to you though.

You need to care about the differences between (Su) vs. (Sp) vs. (Ex) abilities... I honestly only remembered that was a thing right now, today, when you mentioned it.

But I remember it was important because some are innate to the creature, others are not, some can be blocked by anti-magic, some can be counter-spelled.... I dunno. I think you want the Gloomfetch to be more like the alien from Alien/s, where it physically attaches (and physically inserts something into your brain?); rather than the Vampire's "look into my eyes" mental domination.

Still! You could use the Dominate effect but rework it to be, umm... (Ex)? instead of (Su)? I am not sure if that is strictly legal by the 3e rules, though.

As for how long it lasts. If the Gloomfetches have an entire civilization built around using humanoid labor, it seems like 1 hour per HD is way way too short. Otherwise they would spend half their waking hours re-applying the dominate effect. Plus they'd have to schedule their sleep time so the thrall doesn't break out during the X hours the Gloomfetch is asleep.

Even 1 day per HD is pretty short for "build your entire civilization on this". Every week or so you'd need to re-dominate, and sometimes it would fail, there'd be constant thralls escaping or rebelling....

Now interestingly the 3e Aboleth has a different wording of its dominate power:

Enslave (Su): Three times per day, an aboleth can attempt to enslave any one living creature within 30 feet. The target must succeed on a DC 16 Will save or be affected as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 16th). An enslaved creature obeys the aboleth’s telepathic commands until freed by remove curse, and can attempt a new Will save every 24 hours to break free. The control is also broken if the aboleth dies or travels more than 1 mile from its slave. The save DC is Charisma-based.

So there's no specific duration; it lasts until remove curse or a Will save. But the Will save DC is only 16. Which even a o-level peasant with 8 WIS is going to succeed on 5% of the time when he rolls a 20. Adventuring types would be routinely throwing off the dominate after a day (by design! so the PCs aren't forever in thrall to an aboleth).

But anyway with the aboleth-controlled peasant army, it would also be constantly rebelling and escaping, etc. I never realized this before.

BY THE SIMULATIONIST RULES.

But by the 3e FLUFF? Aboleths and mind flayers and vampires are permanently and unbreakably in control of their thralls... until the plot demands otherwise. Or the PCs show up and kill them.

So... do whatever you want?

I hate to end with a throw up my hands answer, but that seems to be what the 3e designers did. :)

Also, it's not like the D&D IRS is going to show up to audit your statblock. If it's good enough for you at the table, it's good enough. (Plus your players will presumably never see it, so the only one you need to satisfy is yourself.)
 

Hahaha, more good points! Yeah, I'm very likely being overly careful of how its built, but that's because I want it to stand up to scrutiny--namely, my own. lol I'm a harsh taskmaster with my designs.

I think I fixed it.
Gloomfetch
Small Aberration (Aquatic [Amphibious])
Hit Dice: 6d8 + 6 (33hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 10 feet (2 squares), swim 40 feet
Armor Class:16 (+1 size, +3 natural armor), touch 13, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+6 (Improved Grab)
Attack: Tentacle +7 (1d2+2)
Full Attack: 8 Tentacles +7 (1d2+2)
Space/Reach: 5 feet/5 feet
Special Attacks: Constrict (1d2+2), Enthrall, Improved Grab, Psionics
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 feet, Low-light vision, Spell Resistance 11, Telepathy 60 feet
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +7
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 14
Skills: Bluff +6, Concentration +10, Diplomacy +5, Hide +10, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (History) +7, Listen +9, Move Silently +6, Sense Motive +9, Spot +9, Swim +5
Feats: Improved Grab, Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Concentration)
Environment: Underground
Organization: TBD
CR 8
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Psionics (Sp): At will--Charm Monster (DC 17), Detect Thoughts (DC 15), Dominate Person (DC 18), Suggestion (DC 16)
Enthrall (Su): A gloomfetch can attempt to enthrall any one living creature it succeeds on a grapple against. The target must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or be affected as though by a dominate person spell. An enthralled creature obeys the gloomfetch’s telepathic commands until freed by remove curse, and can attempt a new Will save every 24 hours to break free. The control is also broken if the gloomfetch dies, willfully adetaches, or travels more than 1 mile from its slave. The save DC is Charisma-based.

There will be more to it like the gloomfetch using the Reflex and Fortitude saves of the host, and using its abilities, etc, but that's a good start, I think. Thank you for that feedback--very valuable.
 

I wonder if it should have some kind of big, temporary bonus to grapple checks when it attacks from surprise (it does have Hide +10). Otherwise with a +6 it could easily fail its initial check.

But maybe you want it to have a low success chance? IDK.
 

Maybe I should add back in the Hold Person psionic ability? Then, it hits a target with that, possibly while concealed, prior to initiating a grapple.
 


I mean, it has eight attacks at +7, so it's not like it lacks or grapple attempts. I need to come up with a thrall template to apply to humanoids it attaches to.
 

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Gloomfetch Thrall Template
Gloomfetch Thrall is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature of Medium size (hereafter referred to as the base creature) when the gloomfetch has successfully enthralled the base creature and is attached.

A gloomfetch thrall uses all the gloomfetch’s statistics and special abilities excepted as noted here.
Size and Type: The base creature’s type changes to Medium Humanoid Aberration (Amphibious) or Medium Monstrous Humanoid Aberration (Amphibious).
Hit Dice: Increase all current and future Hit Dice by +1 hp per Gloomfetch’s HD
Speed: Same as the base creature, but with Swim 20
Armor Class: The base creature’s natural armor bonus increases by +1
Attack and Full Attack: A gloomfetch gains all of the attacks and full attacks of the base creature, plus any attacks and full attacks of the gloomfetch’s class levels (except natural weapons), if any.
Special Attacks: A gloomfetch thrall retains all the special attacks of the base creature, except those with save DCs based on Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence, and gains the Improved Grab and Psionics special attacks of the Gloomfetch.
Special Qualities: A gloomfetch thrall retains all the special qualities of the base creature, and gains all of the special qualities of the gloomfetch.
Abilities: The gloomfetch thrall retains the Strength and Dexterity bonuses of the base creature, but gains a +2 to its Constitution, and uses the Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma of the gloomfetch.
Skills: The gloomfetch thrall retains the skills of the base creature, and gains the skills of the gloomfetch. The skill bonuses are recalculated using the new abilities and ability adjustments listed above.
Feats: The gloomfetch thrall retains all the feats of the base creature and gains the Improved Initiative and Skill Foclus (Concentration) feats, assuming the creature meets the prerequisites and doesn’t already have these feats.
Environment: The gloomfetch thrall gains the subterranean type.
Organization: Same as the gloomfetch.
Treasure: Double standard.
Alignment: Always Lawful Evil
Advancement: By character class.
Level Adjustment: Same as the gloomfetch +2.

Gloomfetch thralls are are always evil, which causes characters of certain classes to lose some class abilities, as noted in Chapter 3 of the Player’s Handbook. In addition, certain classes take additional penalties.
Barbarians: Barbarians lose their Illiteracy, Rage, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Indomitable Will, Tireless Rage, and Mighty Rage, and cannot gain levels in Barbarian while enthralled.
Bards: Bards lose all their mind-affecting abilities and special qualities, and cannot gain levels in Bard while enthralled.
Clerics: Clerics loses all spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and proficiency with simple weapons. He or she cannot thereafter gain levels as a cleric of that god until they atone (see the atonement spell description on page 201 in the Player’s Handbook).
Druids: Druids lose all spells and druidic abilities (including his or her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor and shield proficiencies). He or she cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until they atone (see the atonement spell description on page 201 in the Player’s Handbook). However, they lose their animal companions; the link between them is broken, and the companion shuns its former master. Another one can never be gained, even once freed because animals will always be uneasy around the druid, sensing the taint of the gloomfetch.
Paladins: Paladins lose all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels of a paladin. He or she regains their abilities and advancements, but must atone for their violations. However, paladins do not lose the ability to ever regain levels in their class due to being enthralled because their acts are not their own. However, once freed, they may be able to atone (see the atonement spell description on page 201 in the Player’s Handbook), depending upon the deity at the GM’s discretion. However, they lose their paladin mounts; the link between them is broken, and the animal shuns its former master. Another one can never be gained, even once freed because animals will always be uneasy around the paladin, sensing the taint of the gloomfetch.
Rangers: Rangers lose their divine spells and animal companions; the link between them is broken, and the companion shuns its former master. Another one can never be gained, even once freed because animals will always be uneasy around the ranger, sensing the taint of the gloomfetch.
Sorcerers and WIzards: Gloomfetch thrall who are sorcerers and wizards retain their class abilities, but if a character has a familiar, the link between them is broken, and the familiar shuns its former companion. Another one can never be gained, even once freed because animals will always be uneasy around the sorcerer or wizard, sensing the taint of the gloomfetch.

I think I have the template figured out. How's this for a thrall? Even got some more artwork to go with it.
 
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I think the second sentence under the "Sorcerers and Wizards" section is there in error, as it contradicts the other material.

Have you decided how to deal with attacking a gloomfetch "riding" a thrall? Who takes the damage?

Johnathan
 

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