D&D Essentials? I might actually play this game.

[Mark CMG]

4e is simplified enough.

Indeed. When our group plays it as part of the regular rotation of various systems and games we play, the DM takes about five minutes with his DDI subscription to pregen a character for me at whatever level is appropriate and I spread the printed pages and cards out at the table with all of the information I need right in front of me. I think I may have needed the DM to refer to his books once or twice in our whole last 4E campaign just to clarify the effects of a power or two. Every encounter was pretty much nudging the figures around and punching first with an encounter power or two then mopping up with the at-will powers unless it was a tougher fight and some daily powers got used. I'm not sure how 4E could be made even easier.


Our group played the RPGA Homlett reward adventure and a short homebrew campaign set in (a 3.5 [con]version of) FR, and we were going to play in the RPGA version of Tomb of Horros but our 4E DM picked up a side job that is going to occupy him for a while on our usual gamenights. When Essentials comes out and he's had a look, if he wants to drop the cash on it he'll be giving me Essentials pregens in the same manner as above and it shouldn't make any difference on my end. If there are ten products, and actually only six books, and most of those are less expensive softcover books, then maybe he won't mind the $100 or so it costs to change what he runs from 4E to Essentials. If it really is essentially the same experience, he may decide to save his cash and just make some slight changes based on what is available in the DDI.

Weird...the one thing about 4e's fluff I find interesting is that I find more parallels to mythic fiction than say videogames...

Pre 4e, the fluff was certainly not Tolkein and wasn't strongly tied to any mythic storytelling....it was its OWN thing but if I was given a question to

"which edition's fluff is more tied to literary influences" I'd go hands down with 4e.

Harold Bloom is rolling over in his grave and he's not even dead yet.

 

[AllisterH]

???

Posting a picture doesn't actually bolster your argument.

E.g the creation of the 4e world and the gods war between the titans and the gods is ripped straight from mytholgy.

Similarly, the "betrayal" by Asmodeus and the Nine Hells being a punishment is pretty much Judeo-Christian...

The idea of a race that bargains with devils for power and becomes decadent is a common trope in fantasy fiction LONG before videogames

Formorians, the feywild are straight up celtic as well...Similarly, the idea of a shadow world that matches the real world

Again...pre 4e D&D built its own mythology/fluff/background and does use elements of things like Tolkein (and we have Gygax's own words that he tried to move D&D away from Tolkein) but overall?

4e has way more elemtns which I associate with "myth/literary" than pre 4e D&D.

 

[SteveC]

Indeed. When our group plays it as part of the regular rotation of various systems and games we play, the DM takes about five minutes with his DDI subscription to pregen a character for me at whatever level is appropriate and I spread the printed pages and cards out at the table with all of the information I need right in front of me. I think I may have needed the DM to refer to his books once or twice in our whole last 4E campaign just to clarify the effects of a power or two. Every encounter was pretty much nudging the figures around and punching first with an encounter power or two then mopping up with the at-will powers unless it was a tougher fight and some daily powers got used. I'm not sure how 4E could be made even easier.

I just have to say that I'm not sure if its the GM or the players, but with that description, why on earth would anyone play in an RPG, any RPG? I know that this was posted as flame bait, and after my initial reaction of "hmmn, sounds like combat in pretty much any D20 based game," I just have to say: get out of that situation. I'm sure there's a much better option available to you. For me, the Paint Drying Marathon on the Home and Garden Channel would work.

No gaming is better than bad gaming. And bad gaming because you hate the game system is the worst of all, since there's nothing anyone can do to make it better.

 

[Mark CMG]

???

Posting a picture doesn't actually bolster your argument.

I'm not making an argument. Your use of the word "literary" got me thinking about how broadly the word get used.

I just have to say that I'm not sure if its the GM or the players, but with that description, why on earth would anyone play in an RPG, any RPG?

I don't play 4E for its RPGness, such as it is. Different people get different things out of games. I started off playing wargames in the early seventies (and still do regularly, both board wargames and large scale miniatures and skirmish miniatures games). I also play many boardgames, card games, and RPGs. Our regular gaming group has played using a dozen different RPG systems over the past two or three years, and have played many wargames and board games and card games, too. With 4E, it's the tabletop combat that appeals to me. Your mileage may vary. Don't look for flames where there aren't any.

 

[Henry]

For Jack Daniel:

I hope your experience goes well. In my case, I found the 4E rules a lot easier than they seemed at first glance. In fact, looking back now at a comparison of character sheets, I think 4E's sheet looks even easier than those Goldenrod AD&D sheets from the 1980's. Then again, my 1040A looked easier than those Goldenrod Sheets from the 80's...

 

[Verdande]

With 4E, it's the tabletop combat that appeals to me. Your mileage may vary. Don't look for flames where there aren't any.

Funnily enough, it's the combat of 4e that appeals to me as well, but I think it could have done better as a standalone wargame instead of trying to be D&D. If they'd have called it "Dungeoneer: The Fantasy Skirmish Game" and just marketed the rules to people who wanted to play Warhammer Fantasy-lite, I think the game would have gone 300% better. It's not the rules that bothers people, it's the fact that it's not the game that they want to play. I think it's funny that this bothers some people.

As to the OP: I agree about Essentials. The art style still kinda sucks, but they're making it much more appealing to people who liked the older style of the game. Like I said in my blog post, though, I don't know if they've gone far enough...

 

[Nifft]

If nothing else, Essentials seems to be a great advertising move.

I hope the classes are good, too.

Cheers, -- N