D&D General D&D Evolutions You Like and Dislike [+]

[Maxperson]

Or if you prefer a food analogy: If you replace the cream with tomato puree, and the clams with sausage, and the potatoes with tortellini, and the Old Bay with salamoia bolognese, it's not clam chowder anymore, even if it has the right structure, because it has (effectively) none of the components. Likewise, a carafe of cream, a container of chicken broth, a pile of potatoes, a bowl of freshly shucked clams, and a container of Old Bay aren't clam chowder either. The former has lost all but the tiniest similarities to clam chowder, having only the most fundamental structure (soup). The latter has all the components, but components alone don't make clam chowder, the cooking does.

I think what @Lanefan is getting at, to continue the food analogy is the following.

The initial party consists of clams, pork, onion, and celery. Along the way pork retires and he adds in garlic. Then onion dies and he adds in potatoes. And so on. Pork and onions are still in there, since the soup(story) is the entire adventure. Clams wasn't replaced. A new ingredient was added. At the end of the adventure you wind up with some delicious Clam Chowder.

I'm not saying speaking against individual stories. I'm just saying that you can still get some really tasty soup without them.

 

[Maxperson]

It's funny how, even in the most intense OS vs new era debates, you rarely see strong defense of race/class restrictions and level limits. There doesn't seem to be as much calls for "elves shouldn't be bards!" And "dwarves should only reach 12 level max" as I see for a lot of other aspects of AD&D. Then again, I don't hang in OS communities, so maybe there is a hidden wellspring of support for halflings only being mid-level fighters and thieves.

That might be because even back in the 1980's a whole lot of people didn't play with those limits.

 

[Maxperson]

But a game isn't a story until it is over. RPGs generate stories by virtue of being played, but they aren't "A Story". Stories have beginnings, middles and ends. they have plots and characters, high and low points. None of that is true with RPGs except in retrospect. The story we tell about the game we just played IS the story, generated from the game. Treating an RPG like a "story" with important predestined plot points is a good way to ruin the "game" aspect and impinge on the most important element of RPG play: player agency. RPGs are games where we play to find out what happens.

(Just because the world is a weird place, I will go ahead and specifically say "all this in my opinion" as if it weren't obvious from the start.)

I don't agree with you about the story only showing up at the end of the RPG. The group can have the goal of saving the princess, but I can go to lunch with a friend and relate to him the story of how we encountered a rigid pig in the wilderness while we traveled, and that the pig turned out to be a confused mimic. When we eventually beat it, we found a wand of magic missiles.

That's a story, even if we aren't anywhere near completing the adventure.

 

[Reynard]

I don't agree with you about the story only showing up at the end of the RPG. The group can have the goal of saving the princess, but I can go to lunch with a friend and relate to him the story of how we encountered a rigid pig in the wilderness while we traveled, and that the pig turned out to be a confused mimic. When we eventually beat it, we found a wand of magic missiles.

That's a story, even if we aren't anywhere near completing the adventure.

Fine. Sure. But you did not have a story about the pig incident until it was resolved, did you?

 

[Maxperson]

wait, what? is that a thing? that's psychotic. that can't be a thing. what?

I've had people here argue that to me multiple times, but the rules say that the PCs are members of their race and that the traits in the 5e PHB are racial traits, so if you look at it in context, their argument is incorrect. The 5e PHB very clearly says...

"RACIAL TRAITS
The description of each race includes racial traits that are common to members of that race. The following entries appear among the traits of most races"

Common to members of the race, not common to PCs or PC members of the race.

 

[Maxperson]

Not in B/X, it didn't. It gives super abilities, but it does not bring Strength up that way.

AD&D was also a mistake.

I always liked AD&D more than Basic, but then I started with AD&D so...

 

[Maxperson]

Fine. Sure. But you did not have a story about the pig incident until it was resolved, did you?

Sure. I could also tell a story about how we met a still pig that was a confused mimic. The story doesn't have more than that yet, but it's still a story I'm telling to my friend.

A story is just something you are relating to someone else about things that happened.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Fine. Sure. But you did not have a story about the pig incident until it was resolved, did you?

i'd say i would, i might not of had an ending to the pig story yet but i would say i had a story.

 

[Reynard]

Sure. I could also tell a story about how we met a still pig that was a confused mimic. The story doesn't have more than that yet, but it's still a story I'm telling to my friend.

A story is just something you are relating to someone else about things that happened.

Yes. That.